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I'm just curious, because I refuse to use blast template weapons and I get frustrated when my opponent has a lot of them. It seems like we can never agree on which direction the scatter dice points, where the template ends up, how many models are hit, etc. It typically slows the game down and always causes an awkward moment when I have to insist that my opponent isn't scattering the template properly. Plus, I tend to put my back out leaning over the table to get a top-down view on those damn templates!

I agree with everything, especially the angle of the scatter roll.
But there's not really a viable alternative.

I love blast weps. Its not too hard (especially with the older clear templates) to see how many bases are touching. Though I could see there being a problem when playing against more serious players

As a horde player, I despise templates. Unless they're mine.

Oaka wrote:I'm just curious, because I refuse to use blast template weapons and I get frustrated when my opponent has a lot of them. It seems like we can never agree on which direction the scatter dice points, where the template ends up, how many models are hit, etc. It typically slows the game down and always causes an awkward moment when I have to insist that my opponent isn't scattering the template properly. Plus, I tend to put my back out leaning over the table to get a top-down view on those damn templates!

Here is a simple suggestion: Get a thin piece of balsa wood. Mark it with increments of 1". When scatter die is rolled balance balsa on top of the arrow exactly and count off the inches on the balsa. The balsa is light enough that it won't damage any minis. This will also limit arguements because you will be able to clear see the direction to follow. To make it even easier, be sure to drop the scatter die right next to the original target location as well.

Skriker

I run into the problem with the direction of the arrow as well. It makes me wonder if I'm losing my vision, my opponent will try to move the marker in a completely different direction than what is shown on the die. A few things I've found to combat this are:

Roll the scatter die near the location of the actual blast, this makes it a lot easier to get the right direction.

If the person really isn't listening to reason, have them measure out the scatter in the direction they think it is. Then draw out your tape measure over the scatter die a few feet long, going directly over the direction of the arrow. Show your opponent that his line is not even close to parallel with yours, and have him make it parallel. I've found that this one works on even the most stubborn people.

Ok, I'm glad that I'm not the only one. Even with all the proposed suggestions, it will still slow the game down immensely. A unit of Killa Kans with grotzookas is my most feared example, but now these 5-man units of Necron tomb blades with blast weapons will start popping up once the models are released. I prefer sitting back in my chair on my side of the table and waiting until my opponent tells me how many wounds he made and with which weapons. I feel like I have to put in far too much work during his shooting phase when he uses blast weapons.

As for a viable alternative to the current system, I would like to see it where, if you scatter, instead of moving the template by a certain number of inches, rather you reduce the number of models hit by that number. Simple.

No, blast weapons are a good thing. Stop whining and either stop playing or learn to deal with it.

My biggest problem with blast weapons is that since you have to target a model the template will often only cover one model against a good opponent. You/They then spend an age looking for the most effective landing spot.

The scatter should always be right next to the target point. Anyone should be able to roll a dice within a few inches of the target unit.

My attitude for those close calls is very much free and easy. If I ever get to the point where I was bothered by an extra hit because someone says a base is touched or not or the line of scatter is actually 0.01mm to the right is the day I give up.

That said, I actually quite like the nervous tension that the scatter dice can create. Will it/Won't it scatter on to a better unit/my unit? Great in game theatre.

Trondheim wrote:No, blast weapons are a good thing. Stop whining and either stop playing or learn to deal with it.

They are certainly not a good thing when they introduce subjectivity into, what is supposed to be, a game. No one can argue if a lascannon roll to wound is a '2' or not, yet two people can certainly argue about a scatter on a blast weapon. That's why I don't like them.

The best suggestion I've ever seen is to mark a small blast and large blast with 12 increments, then roll a D12 and move it in the direction rolled on the dice.

Thus was it so, prior to the invention of the scatter dice (circa 2nd/3rd Edition?).

Blast templates are a good thing, they serve a very important purpose in this game (e.g. making bottleknecks useful, forcing big units to spread out to prevent them from overwhelming one point, taking out otherwise unkillable deathstars, removing the need for high RoF weapons that would otherwise be needed that would be imbalanced against MC's/Tanks, etc). Yes they can be a hassle and cause issues, but without them you'd face a whole range of other issues.

I hate it when my tabletop strategy game has strategy to it.

I admire the intelligence of the posts here. To see past the gripes about meauring the angle of an arrow and trying to discern what models are underneath a template, and see the subliminal message of the OP going "MY HORD NO LIKE TEMPLAYT Y I NOT AS CLEVER AS YOU GUIYZ".
Seriously. Well played.

I'm not fond of blast weapons since their effectiveness is so easily removed. Just spread out your unit and those blasts are now useless. I hate this. Out-spreaded units just ruines all blast weapons, and they don't look good on the table.

Using a blast takes only about twice as long as any other weapon, which isn't much. That being said, I usually have a good idea of where I'm going to put it before the movement phase it done, and I rarely try to fiddle with it too much. That being said I have played against players who take forever, and they are almost invariably either new or take the game entirely too seriously. Pick the most central guy in the squad you can reach and get on with it, 9 times out of 10 that is what you will come to by agonizing over it anyway.

Me and my friends came up with a rather clever way of doing it. Mark which way north (there's a crazy old device called a compass) is on a piece of plastic sheeting (can be whatever - even a microwave meal wrapper in one case. Its best of the compass

Then roll your scatter dice - mark direction on the on the plastic sheeting - then move the blast template in that direction - simples. Takes about 30 seconds if you know what you're doing

At least you don't have to roll to hit the models under the template anymore.

I agree with just about all of that! I never EVER Agree with my opponent of how the scatter goes and telling what is under it sucks noodle fries

ATrueArgonaut wrote:Me and my friends came up with a rather clever way of doing it. Mark which way north (there's a crazy old device called a compass) is on a piece of plastic sheeting (can be whatever - even a microwave meal wrapper in one case. Its best of the compass

Then roll your scatter dice - mark direction on the on the plastic sheeting - then move the blast template in that direction - simples. Takes about 30 seconds if you know what you're doing

I built a piece of terrain with a holding tank you can roll a scatter die in. The base has straight edges to line it up with the edge of the board, so if need be you can roll in it and then move it next to the unit, while keeping everything lined up.

Or, you can just roll next to the unit in question, which is even easier.

I dislike blast weapons because mine always scatter off into oblivion. I miss the old rules where you just rolled to hit with the darn things.

I try not to include many blast weapons mostly due to my friend who has a habit of changing the direction. The scatter die is rolled, we use a measure tape to figue out the 'line' from the die, then move it over the squad.

However, when he moves it over my squads, the measure tape strangely rotates to land as close as possible. When it gets moved over his squads, it strangely rotates to land outside the squad. On a few occasions I've called him on this bs, but it gets tiresom every time a scatter is rolled. It gets to the point where I hope even his get a hit so we don't have that bs.

Whats funny is, on top of that (and doing bs movement, measuring front of base to back of base plus moving the measuretape while measuring to get another 2-3" movement) he still manages to lose 75% of his games.

lledwey wrote:

Roll the scatter die near the location of the actual blast, this makes it a lot easier to get the right direction.

This has helped avoid many arguments for me, when the scatter die is rolled far away from the unit you are aiming at it is difficult to see exactly which direction, if it's close/right next to the target unit it is much easier to see.