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Let's hear some ideas on how to do this at around 1500 points. I'm usually up against 3+ venoms, raiders and 3 ravagers, but my opponent uses 90-100% proxies so I could face literally anything. The venom spam has a big pain for me and given how generally fragile ork vehicles are, 9 dark lances become an even bigger problem.

I get that the way to beat Dark Eldar is to shoot down their transports, but what should I try that with on an ork's BS?

Eh... I found that high volume of fire is the best way to de-vehicularize DE. I'm sure others would jump in, but here's my take.

-2x or 3xLootas (5 man squads)
-3 separate Green Barons (TL-Rokkits / Buzzsaw) or massed Rokkit buggies.
-Killa Kans with rokkits/gortzookas
-At 2000pts, I play warbiker lists... DE wet paper airplanes are no match for massed TL-dakkagun shots .

You are going to need a couple squads of lootas. I suggest you run them in squads of 9 or more and here is why:

1. Average is 2 shots a piece so at 9 you get 18 shots which averages to 6 hits, then 1 glance and 3 pens on AV10. This should be enough to open up a vehicle. Anything less and you are relying on luck too much.
2. At 9 your opponent will need to kill 3 to force a leadership test which is a big deal with crappy ork leadership.

I usually run 2 squads of 11. Mostly because thats what I have painted.

You are more likely to score well against DE with Kan Wall over battlewagons. The kan wall simply has too many light vehicles with cover saves for the number of lances we can bring.

If you are playing against venom spam I'm not sure lootas are the way to go, rokkit buggies might be of more help - although depending on the size of the game both might be an option.

Battlewagons are just going to get outmaneuvered until they can be dropped, and the venoms/cc elements will have their way with the contents.

whembly wrote:-2x or 3xLootas (5 man squads)

That's a bad move vs. DE, Venoms will eat a 5 man squad for breakfast in seconds.

Lootas are a prime anti-DE tool though, I suggest big squads of them, it's the only way to survive through the Venom fire long enough to get your needed work done.
Deffkoptas or Rokkit Buggies are both pretty functional options.
Warbikers are also pretty solid, TL Str 5 shooting isn't shabby at dealing with our paper planes.

If you run mech you'll need a KFF to survive the waves of dark matter shooting.

I think the generally agreed toughest matchup for DE from the Ork dex is Foot Orks, oddly enough. Venoms are good, but even they struggle to kill that many orks, and as most DE players focus on Blasters they are often lacking in good horde killing tools. (plus the obligatory 3x 15 Lootas is a good step too )

So kan wall, lootas, rokkit buggies and no battlewagons.

With boyz mobs, should I go for big shootas or rokkits?

Big Shootas against DE.

rokkit buggy squads are the bane of DE

3 x 3 rokkit buggies is 9 twin linked rokkits to take those little paper mache boats apart

Also for low points games like that if you’re not running battle wagon bash style list kannonz are a good way of dealing with them

I found that rokkit buzzsaw koptas that alpha strike is pretty good
Dice willing you will blow a transport before it can move. If it explodes have fun see T3 units dying. I wold priotise the de cc unit to corce them to walk. Remember that de can destroy in cc with their higher I.

Serder wrote:I found that rokkit buzzsaw koptas that alpha strike is pretty good
Dice willing you will blow a transport before it can move. If it explodes have fun see T3 units dying. I wold priotise the de cc unit to corce them to walk. Remember that de can destroy in cc with their higher I.

Dice willing. That sounds like it can get expensive though. Still, it would kill right good, but that's if I get first turn. Sounds like a gambling man's choice. It's either that or many buggies. Target CC transports? but shooting the shooters is so tempting! Hopefully he won't take wyches this time round.

I should have a game sometime soon. I'll let you guys know how it goes.

[quote=CuddlySquig
Dice willing. That sounds like it can get expensive though. Still, it would kill right good, but that's if I get first turn. Sounds like a gambling man's choice. It's either that or many buggies. Target CC transports? but shooting the shooters is so tempting! Hopefully he won't take wyches

what about the grot guns? rokkits at a higher bs or maybe even the lowly shoota boy, if you get the full sixty shots of even str 4 will make him hurt, not even taking in the 3 big shootas.
dunno i have only faced DE with my hybridar (hybrid eldar)

rana dandra wrote:what about the grot guns? rokkits at a higher bs or maybe even the lowly shoota boy, if you get the full sixty shots of even str 4 will make him hurt, not even taking in the 3 big shootas.
dunno i have only faced DE with my hybridar (hybrid eldar)

I dont remember the name of the 5 or 10 point upg the De has, but its an upg that removes 6'' from your range or gives night fighting rule to everything shooting at it, something like that that makes ork long range weaponry that isnt lootas not so good.

Night Shields - all it does is -6" range when targeting the vehicle. It does help protect from infantry trying to dakka skimmers to death pretty well.

So we just had our game.

It was fought to a very close draw. I took 9 buggies, 3 kans, 21 lootas, 4 trukks all with rokkits and packed with boyz (shoota boyz all, was that a mistake?), each squad with a nob+PK. A KFF big mek sat in the center. He had 3 venoms, 2 raiders, 2 ravagers, a mess of hellions with their SC, Sliscus and warriors everywhere else. We played objectives and the end result was 1-1, though I could have won because he only had 2 ravagers and 4 warriors left but the game ended on turn 6. So it was a moral victory to the orks, not just because I mangled the DE but because the list worked. The rokkit buggies investment paid off The lootas didn't earn their keep. He just blazed away with splinter fire at them, flying quickly in range.

I made a few tactical blunders along the way. I kept my boyz shooting from their trukks when they should have gotten stuck in. I also forgot about the KFF's saves (first time I used one). I just have a problem with the stupid-powerful CC options the DE have. Their power from pain ability cheeses me off, especially from its liberal distribution of FNP.

And I'm sure most DE generals would like to pay 6 points for their troops, get 2 base attacks per model, and get furious charge for free.

But I suppose that's what makes different codices different, hrm?

General: Hao! Dai ye! We won again! This is good, but what is best in life?
Mongol: The open steppe, fleet horse, falcons at your wrist, and the wind in your hair.
General: Wrong! Conan! What is best in life?
Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women.
General: That is good! That is good.

Well congrats, I was actually going to suggest the rokkit buggy spam, as its my fav really. Ive hammered down SO many units/transports with all those rokkits, adn they are cheap to boot. Not to mention if you keep them near a KFF they get 4+ cover saves. Infact Ive been working on useing buggy spam as a new "Wall" build, so I can free up my heavy support options. So far, its been very survivable, not to mention, pisses out rokkits like a fiend.

Kan Wall. Those splinter weapons can't touch them, and even though Darklight is deadly, they are a lot tougher than Trukks. Couple of KFF Meks in HQ, 2 Dreds in Troops, loads of Boys and Lootas. Maybe some Deff Koptas for catching those DE vehicles.

Glad to hear it went well, though from what I hear the DE player is running rather sub-optimal himself. If he has trouble adjusting send him my way so I can tell him out to eat those Orks

Thor665 wrote:Glad to hear it went well, though from what I hear the DE player is running rather sub-optimal himself. If he has trouble adjusting send him my way so I can tell him out to eat those Orks

Yeah, the more I think about this battle the more convinced I feel that the result was because of my mistakes than his tactics. He beat me once with DE because I had a bad list, but I've tabled him in three other games. This is the second time he's played with a traditional transport-borne DE force.

Nice to hear that you have adapted for the fight true to your Orky rootz. Now, if only that archon would up his game and smash some orky skum. :p

Cheers!

KingCracker wrote:Well congrats, I was actually going to suggest the rokkit buggy spam, as its my fav really.

Is the KFF save the only thing buggies have over deffkoptas? I would think that 2 wounds is better than av10, that and they can fly over terrain and turbo boost.

I haven't used them yet myself (konverting some now) but don't see the advantage over koptas.

Steak wrote:

KingCracker wrote:Well congrats, I was actually going to suggest the rokkit buggy spam, as its my fav really.

Is the KFF save the only thing buggies have over deffkoptas? I would think that 2 wounds is better than av10, that and they can fly over terrain and turbo boost.

I haven't used them yet myself (konverting some now) but don't see the advantage over koptas.

with Rokkits they are 10points cheaper, immune to S3 and have the squadron rule. any high strength weapon that will really easily kill a buggy will ID a kopta anyway, but the kopta wouldnt get a 4++.
Deffkoptas have thier advantages obviously, like scouting or moving over cover. I normally upgrage to a wartrakk anyway, so moving through cover is pretty safe.
Deffkoptas also can have the buzzsaws aswell but then they are 35 points more expensive (double)

Well its situational, as sometimes I prefer the koptas. But rokkit buggies are my go to unit. They are squadrons, with the benefits/cons of that, are armor and cheap as well, and fast. Also, I find them FAR more flexible then a kopta. Take them in 3s, they can move 12 inches and still fire the TL rokkits (and BS2 TL is slightly better then BS3) spread them out, and stick them under a KFF bubble. Now they have a 4+ cover save, and are spread so they can easily cover units behind them (like kans) granting said units a 4+ as well (wall) they are fast, so you can make them really haul ass if needed. Why is that important? Well you use them to deny area on tables, or waste other units movements.

If I were to zip a squadron of them up right infront of a unit, you have 2 choices, move around it, or assault. If you move around it, youll waste movement going around them, as said they have a good sized footprint. Or assault them, well good luck there, I just moved over 6 inches, so your rolling 6s to hit them. Sure they have their drawbacks, but I think the pros far out weigh the cons

Ajroo wrote:with Rokkits they are 10points cheaper, immune to S3 and have the squadron rule. any high strength weapon that will really easily kill a buggy will ID a kopta anyway, but the kopta wouldnt get a 4++.

True, thanks!

KingCracker wrote:Well its situational, as sometimes I prefer the koptas. But rokkit buggies are my go to unit.

Well written and informative, as always KC. Thanks a lot!

I don't play Orks, but I do play DE. And buggies look a lot more imposing to me than koptas ever could.

Take that for what you will?

Nice to hear you smashed dat panzie Skum! WAAAGH!
That aside, I think mass vehicles is the way to go. Rokkit Buggies, kanz with grotzookas/rokkits, and a Deff Dread or 2, backed up by many shoota boyz, KFF and SAG Meks, and possibly Lootaz if the game allows.
I was slightly disappointed when I heard that the player was using 90-100% proxy Why doesn't he just use what he's got!
- Gutsnagga

Gutsnagga wrote:Nice to hear you smashed dat panzie Skum! WAAAGH!
That aside, I think mass vehicles is the way to go. Rokkit Buggies, kanz with grotzookas/rokkits, and a Deff Dread or 2, backed up by many shoota boyz, KFF and SAG Meks, and possibly Lootaz if the game allows.
I was slightly disappointed when I heard that the player was using 90-100% proxy Why doesn't he just use what he's got!
- Gutsnagga

Part of me wants to believe that its because he doesnt have the funds yet, and so is proxying for now. But the rest of me that has seen that type of thing often, knows that its just because they are unwilling to buy the right things for their army


I dont have everything I want, and Ive got a bunch of different builds I want to try out for kicks, but I wont, simply because I dont have the units for it. But thats just me