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Would the Mk.19 Grenade launcher be comparable to a Bolter. I mean IIRC if fires a base ball sized grenade that explodes upon impact. Kinda like a bolt. What do you think?
Nope. The Bolter is not a Grenade Launcher. It does not fire grenades, is direct fire, not arced fire, and the projectiles it fires do not explode on impact.
Another big difference is the power of the explosion. Your typical bolt does not have enough power to do area effect damage (though there are bolts designed to work that way).
When exploding outside of a body the explosion of a bolt isn't going to be Explosions have an order of magnitude more effect when detonated in an enclosed space. Think of an m80 firecracker. When held in a closed fist it can (supposedly) blow off portions of your hand, but if set off in an open palm the most you have to worry about is some 2nd degree burns.
tl;dr bolts aren't grenades. The small charge they have is enough to do lots of damage if set off internally, but is not typically life threatening when exploding on the ground next to you.
riplikash wrote:When exploding outside of a body the explosion of a bolt isn't going to be Explosions have an order of magnitude more effect when detonated in an enclosed space. Think of an m80 firecracker. When held in a closed fist it can (supposedly) blow off portions of your hand, but if set off in an open palm the most you have to worry about is some 2nd degree burns.
.
wasnt that from armageddon? x) but yes it would blow a portion of your hand away, dynamite is a good example, throw a peice at a cliff and you'll be lucky to scorch it, drill a hole and insert and then you've got it comming down in sheets and bolders
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/11/25 20:38:54
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This is a bit closer to a bolter but not a gyro-jet rocket thingie, but it will explode at determined distances and such..so in the direction of a bolter.
BTW this system has been tested in Afghanistan and has done very well, the troops that tested it loved it.
There you go. The brief history of the real world bolter.
Marneus Calgar is referred to as "one of the Imperium's greatest tacticians" and he treats the Codex like it's the War Bible. If the Codex is garbage, then how bad is everyone else?
There you go. The brief history of the real world bolter.
No.
Bolter shells are multi-stage munitions. Think of them as more advanced and miniaturized versions of these, or something similar (the same general idea anyway)-- with explosives primed to detonate an instant after they hit a solid object.
If all bolter shells were were grenade launchers or even simple gyrojet affairs, flak armor would protect against them as they would be unlikely to have the force necessary to penetrate, and flak armor itself is actually very resistant to blasts and shrapnel so they'd do little damage without penetrating or hitting an area that wasn't armored. Maybe some bruising or, at most, a broken rib. The gyrojet weapons have very little kinetic energy at short range, while a bolter shell is utterly lethal at any range.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/11/25 20:54:02
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
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Good lord you simpletons. The concept is the same and the admitted inspiration for the weapons. No, the gyrojets don't have all sorts of fantasy tech. /facepalm.
Marneus Calgar is referred to as "one of the Imperium's greatest tacticians" and he treats the Codex like it's the War Bible. If the Codex is garbage, then how bad is everyone else?
And really, the only "fantasy tech" in boltguns are the materials they're made out of.
One can easily design a multi-stage munition which explodes an instant after penetration using modern technology.
To us it would be prohibitively expensive to use such a weapon as a front line battle rifle, sure, but it's well within the realm of possibility for modern technology.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/11/25 21:37:46
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
And really, the only "fantasy tech" in boltguns are the materials they're made out of.
One can easily design a multi-stage munition which explodes an instant after penetration using modern technology.
To us it would be prohibitively expensive to use such a weapon as a front line battle rifle, sure, but it's well within the realm of possibility for modern technology.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Oh, you're right, a rifle that fires miniature, rocket motored ammunition out of a smooth barrel is nothing at all like the Bolter just because the standard bolter round has a two stage propellant instead of the technology they were able to develop in the 1970s.
GTFO, child. There are grownups talking here.
Marneus Calgar is referred to as "one of the Imperium's greatest tacticians" and he treats the Codex like it's the War Bible. If the Codex is garbage, then how bad is everyone else?
Veteran Sergeant wrote:Oh, you're right, a rifle that fires miniature, rocket motored ammunition out of a smooth barrel is nothing at all like the Bolter just because the standard bolter round has a two stage propellant instead of the technology they were able to develop in the 1970s.
GTFO, child. There are grownups talking here.
And from the tone of this comment you clearly aren't one of them.
Veteran Sergeant wrote:Oh, you're right, a rifle that fires miniature, rocket motored ammunition out of a smooth barrel is nothing at all like the Bolter just because the standard bolter round has a two stage propellant instead of the technology they were able to develop in the 1970s.
GTFO, child. There are grownups talking here.
And from the tone of this comment you clearly aren't one of them.
I don't suffer fools if they want to present idiotic arguments like they're just pounding on the keyboard and hoping for the best. The creators of 40K acknowledged years ago that they had taken inspiration from gyrojet weapons when they came up with the bolter. Their core concepts are identical: a shoulder fired, magazine fed, smoothbore weapon that fires self propelled ammunition. Don't presume to call me wrong if you can't provide any credible evidence that there is a closer real world analog to the bolter than the gyrojet. Because there isn't. The topic isn't "What could we possibly make if cost was no object?"
Marneus Calgar is referred to as "one of the Imperium's greatest tacticians" and he treats the Codex like it's the War Bible. If the Codex is garbage, then how bad is everyone else?
Veteran Sergeant wrote:Oh, you're right, a rifle that fires miniature, rocket motored ammunition out of a smooth barrel is nothing at all like the Bolter just because the standard bolter round has a two stage propellant instead of the technology they were able to develop in the 1970s.
GTFO, child. There are grownups talking here.
And from the tone of this comment you clearly aren't one of them.
I don't suffer fools if they want to present idiotic arguments like they're just pounding on the keyboard and hoping for the best. The creators of 40K acknowledged years ago that they had taken inspiration from gyrojet weapons when they came up with the bolter. Their core concepts are identical: a shoulder fired, magazine fed, smoothbore weapon that fires self propelled ammunition. Don't presume to call me wrong if you can't provide any credible evidence that there is a closer real world analog to the bolter than the gyrojet. Because there isn't. The topic isn't "What could we possibly make if cost was no object?"
I never once stated that you were wrong, just that your post sounded very childish and snide.
I made no attempt to conceal my disdain, that is very true.
It was bad enough that Melissa argued with me instead of presenting an alternate opinion on something that was closer. But it was the tone she used when she did so, and the fact that she then demonstrated the fact that she actually has no actual knowledge of how gyrojet did and do function. It's sort of a double-whammy of dumbass, and well, I felt obliged to point it out.
Marneus Calgar is referred to as "one of the Imperium's greatest tacticians" and he treats the Codex like it's the War Bible. If the Codex is garbage, then how bad is everyone else?
A gyrojet misses out on the first stage of propulsion (low-velocity ejection by explosive burning of a propellant), weapons like the AA-12 or the grenade launchers presented in this thread miss out on the second stage (acceleration to high speed by use of rocket motor). In this, all these types of weapons are equally far from a 40k boltgun, so the claim that nothing comes closer than a gyrojet could be regarded as fallacy.
Personally, what makes me choose the AA-12 over other models is rate of fire, dimensions, size and caliber. With the AA-12 you'd only have to add a rocket motor to an already fin-stabilized explosive projectile, whereas a gyrojet weapon would require significant modifications to its basic construction to endure the higher stress of a conventional firing method, not to mention the addition of an ejection port.
Just my amateur opinion, ofc.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/11/25 22:47:06
Veteran Sergeant wrote:Oh, you're right, a rifle that fires miniature, rocket motored ammunition out of a smooth barrel is nothing at all like the Bolter just because the standard bolter round has a two stage propellant instead of the technology they were able to develop in the 1970s.
GTFO, child. There are grownups talking here.
And from the tone of this comment you clearly aren't one of them.
hahaha genius!
This is going into my sig.
This question came up repeatedly in the past. From what I can recall from those debates was that the bolter differs from gyrojets weapons with its important propellant charge. A bolt shell is basically a "crossover" between gyrojet weapons (since it is also a self-propelled miniature rocket) and a standard explosive round, making it utterly lethal at both short and long range (as mel pointed out).
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It does indeed.
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A bolter is best described as a cross between a Gyro-jet and an AA-12/RPG.
it has the rocket propulsion of the Gyro-jet and the explosive warhead of the AA-12 grenade ammo/RPG.
All you have to do is combine them and wire the explosive to detonate a few milliseconds after impact. Add in an armor piercing tip for good measure.
No current weapon does exactly what a bolter does, but the componants to make one do exist.
If a bolter analog was created, it would probably function as a counter for light vehicles and enemy troops dug in behind penetrable cover(So the bolt would penetrate the wall and explode on the other side, the advantage would be that the weapon would not need to be calibrated to explode at a certain distance like the newest grenade launchers do)
It would not be issued as a standard firearm but rather as a squad support weapon.
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Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
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iproxtaco wrote:
Joey wrote:Pretty sure a grenade launcher is analogous to a grenade launcher.
The bolter isn't a Grenade Launcher.
Thats what he said.
A bolter does fire an explosive round, but thats where the similarity ends.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
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