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Alright I've decided on a background to my army which i'll put up soon bassiclly they were the orginal natives of what is now know as the Empire. but then after all the tribes joined Sigmar they were pushed to the badlands on reservations live the Siox or the Apache tribes and I would like to know if anyone has any ideas heres the ones I have

empire battle priest

instead of the scrolls the priest has scalps pinned onto his armour.

And face paint

ehh thats it if any of you can help I'd be really grateful

"Zulus, sah, fahsends of 'em!"

ehh

Sounds about as offensive as the nazi armies that get bandied around every now again. Perhaps lay off the scalps?

I am not sure you are aware of Medieval history of Europe in general and Germany (which the Empire is based on) in specific. The people featured in the Empire miniatures ARE the natives, there are no others. Some like the people of Middenheim and their Ulric cult may be less advanced than, say, Reikland.

In the Warhammer universe you might argue that Wood Elves and Beastmen are some sort of natives, but that's a different story.

BTW the scalp thing was introduced by the European settlers in America, to proof Indian kills and get the reward.

Kroothawk wrote:I am not sure you are aware of Medieval history of Europe in general and Germany (which the Empire is based on) in specific. The people featured in the Empire miniatures ARE the natives, there are no others. Some like the people of Middenheim and their Ulric cult may be less advanced than, say, Reikland.

In the Warhammer universe you might argue that Wood Elves and Beastmen are some sort of natives, but that's a different story.

BTW the scalp thing was introduced by the European settlers in America, to proof Indian kills and get the reward.

That's not entirely correct, some tribes actually did take scalps in their wars against each other, called counting coup, but they retained the ears, that's where it differs from the French version of scalping. I'm allowed to say that & still be PC because I'm half Commanche lol.

However, more on-topic, I don't see why you couldn't make a warband based around fluff that they got cut off behind enemy lines & have resorted to terror tactics & guerilla warfare on the enemy or maybe they just got lost in the beast realms & went native? Not a bad idea for an IG army for that matter lol.

Red_Starrise wrote:
That's not entirely correct, some tribes actually did take scalps in their wars against each other, called counting coup, but they retained the ears, that's where it differs from the French version of scalping. I'm allowed to say that & still be PC because I'm half Commanche lol.

Your ethnic group really has no relation to what is in good taste. It's offensive either way, even if you are presenting a stereotypical and offensive view of your own culture. Then again, I rather doubt you grew up in a culture other than "American" which makes it a moot point anyway.

That said, the Empire seems to be more of a medival europe thing, right? That would mean "natives" would be closer to Celtic tribes than native americans. Furs, woad, maybe some beserkers would probably be more appropriate.

I don't see any problem with mountain folk or something like that... just model them to look like some kind of Highlanders.

Unfortunately I'm ignorant on history and have no idea what the old Germanic tribes used to look like...

But the Empire has more of a 17th century vibe to it so the only real-world Western European tribal people to relate to it are the Scottish Highlanders.

Acctuailly scalping did in fact happen we have loads of sources to say that it did. But lets try moving this back on topic.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with doing an army in this style (scalps and all) heck I would throw in some bows/arrows, hatchets, feathered headresses for the heroes/lords and maybe some Teepee's if I could find a suitable counts-as for it!

I think it is a wonderfully fluffy and unique army choice and if done well could be beautiful. I dont understand why it would be politically incorrect nor do I really care. He isnt making any racial slurs or utilizing inappropriate terms/images... simply making a representation of historical facts which is being translated into a FANTASY (meaning it can literally be whatever you want) table top game.


my 5 cents and two thumbs up for the creativity/ingenuity to do it!

Tbh I fail to see what's wrong with modelling scalps... I mean it's not like the descendants of victims of Genghis Khan get up in arms about GW modelling so many skulls on Chaos trophy racks.

Crusher050 wrote:I see absolutely nothing wrong with doing an army in this style (scalps and all) heck I would throw in some bows/arrows, hatchets, feathered headresses for the heroes/lords and maybe some Teepee's if I could find a suitable counts-as for it!

I think it is a wonderfully fluffy and unique army choice and if done well could be beautiful. I dont understand why it would be politically incorrect nor do I really care. He isnt making any racial slurs or utilizing inappropriate terms/images... simply making a representation of historical facts which is being translated into a FANTASY (meaning it can literally be whatever you want) table top game.


my 5 cents and two thumbs up for the creativity/ingenuity to do it!

Hey thanks man hmm do you know what types of paits I could use I was thinking a mix of chaos black and talern flesh

I would use chaos marauders as basic empire footsoldiers, with the chaos insignia filed away and some little extra armour added. For painting, I would paint the armour pure metal. Leather would be blackened brown.

Red_Starrise wrote:That's not entirely correct, some tribes actually did take scalps in their wars against each other, called counting coup, but they retained the ears, that's where it differs from the French version of scalping. I'm allowed to say that & still be PC because I'm half Commanche lol.

To be accurate, counting coup had nothing to do with scalping.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counting_coup

Yeah, basically make them Marauders with moustaches or something. You could also take some empire bowmen and (dunno how good you are with green stuff) give them fur pelts with bear/stag heads or something.

In fact, going by your fluff, I'm not sure if an Empire army is really the right choice here. Empire armies rely on heavy numbers and tight discipline as well as siege weapons and heavy cavalry, your army seems more like Wood Elf material to me. I do remember a friend of mine making an 'Empire Hunstman' army, which was a counts-as Wood Elves.

Interesting idea, though it fits in with the fluff in *no way whatsoever*, but then again, this is Wargaming. You make the bleeding fluff what you want it to be. Dunno about 'Native American' style from a background perspective, though you could do a 'Hill-men' thing, though a Warriors of Chaos marauder or Savage Orc list would fit that bill as well.

Irdiumstern wrote:

Red_Starrise wrote:
That's not entirely correct, some tribes actually did take scalps in their wars against each other, called counting coup, but they retained the ears, that's where it differs from the French version of scalping. I'm allowed to say that & still be PC because I'm half Commanche lol.

Your ethnic group really has no relation to what is in good taste. It's offensive either way, even if you are presenting a stereotypical and offensive view of your own culture. Then again, I rather doubt you grew up in a culture other than "American" which makes it a moot point anyway.

That said, the Empire seems to be more of a medival europe thing, right? That would mean "natives" would be closer to Celtic tribes than native americans. Furs, woad, maybe some beserkers would probably be more appropriate.

The off-topic part: I don't see how drawing upon partially true historical events can be considered offensive when discussing a 'fantasy' army. And some native american tribes could be fairly brutal to their enemies by today's civilized standards. And, not that it's overly relevant, I'm saying that as a Mohawk who was raised on a reservation not located in America (not that I fully understood why that mattered).

The on-topic part: There are lots of miniatures in the tribal vein throughout GW's range (marauders, flagellents) . if you're looking for more of a native american vibe you could look at maybe getting mounted marauders, putting them on wood elf mounts, choosing bald heads and giving them mohawks and braids (daemettes for mohawks, would require some knife work) and kit them out with some bows.

Who cares. If he wants to do Middenhiem Natives than he can do Middenhiem natives. It is FANTASY afterall, right?

As for the scalps, well whose that going to offend. There are people decapitated heads on miniatures all the time. So dont give me this bs about scalps. The whole concept of this game is about war and killing your enemy.

I suggest adding some feathers and maybe not copying the native americans exactly but have some sort of germanic tribe that maybe lived similiar to a native lifestyle. You can use feather, trees, skins, furs etc... to make this noticable and give your army some flare.