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Are Plasma Pistols worth it in any situations? I think its a bit expensive for what would probably just be one shot before you charge ore get charged. Anyone know of a CSM unit it would benifit or a situation/army to use it against?

Plasma pistols, since i have started playing, generally aren't worth taking. They cost as much as a plasma gun and have fewer shots with a shorter maximum range. They can be useful against anything with terminator or artificer armor though, but you might as well take plasma gun. Grey Knights can take a bunch of terminators, there is also Deathwing, and blood angels have units with lots of artificer armor.

I use to run Plasma Pistols in my old Blood Angel list, but now I just run Meltas instead.

Yah they are a much better choice than plasma pistols currently, if you have the option.

I think space wolves are one of the few who can take good advantage of a plasma pistol.

With the averedge ML longfangs/MG grey hunter the fact that taking a plasma pistol on one of the GH for 15 point without loosing anything else could make the worth it. There is nothing lice facing 2+ saves for a codex that only have boltguns, missile launcher and the od meltagunn.

In a drop pod especialy it could be nice to get a S7 against side armour.

For an assaulty unit they are decent on the sergeant who can't take anything else useful. I wouldn't take them if the dude could take a flamer as thats a better assault weapon.

They are decent on Assault marine sergeants, although if you can take Hand Flamers those are probably better. The special weapon dudes should have flamers or Meltaguns.


Plasma pistols are nice because of targets of opprotunity. a plasma shots up the rear armor of a vehicle can seriously hurt.

They only usable if you also take a power weapon, as getting the extra PW attack is included in the points. For the same price, the infernus pistol is always a better option. With BA the extra 6" isn't difficult. Mostly, if you save the points you would spend on them, you can buy a transport or a PF, which tends to be more useful. Mostly, they don't add enough to be points worthy. The infernus pistol is just plain better.

i find them to be quite useful for vanguards/ DA vets. They're pricey, but for vanguards, you get a volley of plasma followed by power weapons at Int4. This destroys default PF termies easily.

I only use the one that comes free on Kharn. And even on him, I often skip the shot since he's a champ at frying himself with it or killing the one model the enemy can remove and deny him the charge.

However, with GK and some of the heavier necrons seeing a larger presence, plasma in general may get more viable. For now, though, melta is almost always a better call. Assault, better range, anti-armor...yeah.

Killadoza wrote:Are Plasma Pistols worth it in any situations? I think its a bit expensive for what would probably just be one shot before you charge ore get charged. Anyone know of a CSM unit it would benifit or a situation/army to use it against?

They are worth a chuckle

Niiai wrote:I think space wolves are one of the few who can take good advantage of a plasma pistol.

With the averedge ML longfangs/MG grey hunter the fact that taking a plasma pistol on one of the GH for 15 point without loosing anything else could make the worth it. There is nothing lice facing 2+ saves for a codex that only have boltguns, missile launcher and the od meltagunn.

In a drop pod especialy it could be nice to get a S7 against side armour.

Yes, because the only weapons you can take in the SW codex is boltguns, missile launchers and occasionally a meltagun or plasma pistol. It burns me too mate, the way you can only take those weapons in the space wolf code...

Wait a second...

They're garbage in more or less every situation

Do plasma pistols cost less in the Guard codex than other dexes? If they're the same across all books, then no, they are NOT the same cost as a plasma gun. They're actually 5 points cheaper.

I put them on my plasma-centric veteran squads. 10 more points for that 7th shot is well worth it I think.

In CSM they're 15 points, same as regular plasma guns. That's a lot of points for something that does nothing special in assault...

Plasma weapons are a victim of the GW design pendulum. In 3rd edition they were cheap (something like 6pts for a plasma gun on a tac marine), cover saves defaulted to only 5+, models in general were a bit more expensive (so your average SM army had fewer dudes), the vehicle damage chart allowed kills a little easier, and melta gave no special benefit on said vehicle damage chart. Given all four of those factors, plasma guns and pistols were EVERYWHERE.

GW realized this and started making plasma more expensive in subsequent codices. Then they kept going and made all those other rules changes- making the vehicle damage chart favor melta over plasma, making 4+ cover the most common type, etc. Over time plasma has just gotten less and less appealing.

It's like what happened with transports, only without the backswing. In 3rd transports were too good. So 4th nerfed the crap out of them. So then GW make them dirt cheap, but then 5th ALSO gave them better rules. Hence, we have transporthammer.

Plasma Pistols specifically stopped being useful for me when Pistols stopped being able to double-tap. One shot on the move, and two while standing still made the Plasma Pistol a decent buy. But now it's far more expensive than it ever was, as well as only ever being one shot.

What are you getting at Jihalla?

I can still see two places where they are hypothetically useful.

The first is in big combined guard squads where the guardsmen are given plasma guns. In this case, you're looking to use plasma and FRF to take down something as much as you possibly can BEFORE the bad guys make it into close combat. The difference between a dead demon prince and a 1-wound demon prince can mean a fair number of guardsmen, especially if you don't have power weapons (or, of course, you could take power blobs instead, but that's another matter).

The second is on khorne berzerkers. A huge number of S5 attacks on the charge (or S6 if you like krak), and S9/8 power fist attacks makes them good against most vehicles within 12", and their huge number of attacks in general makes them good against most infantry models. Where berzerkers fall somewhat flat is against terminators, tough MCs, and fast vehicles. With a pair of plasma pistols or three, that berzerker squad is now looking at a pair of S7 AP2 hits at up to an 18" threat range, which basically ameliorates all three of the berzerker's problems.

Not that I'd necessarily take plasma pistols in either of these cases, but it's not insanity either.

QFT

I remember when starcannon spam used to be feared

until they nerfed it by making it more expensive for less shots

Mannahnin wrote:Plasma weapons are a victim of the GW design pendulum. In 3rd edition they were cheap (something like 6pts for a plasma gun on a tac marine), cover saves defaulted to only 5+, models in general were a bit more expensive (so your average SM army had fewer dudes), the vehicle damage chart allowed kills a little easier, and melta gave no special benefit on said vehicle damage chart. Given all four of those factors, plasma guns and pistols were EVERYWHERE.

GW realized this and started making plasma more expensive in subsequent codices. Then they kept going and made all those other rules changes- making the vehicle damage chart favor melta over plasma, making 4+ cover the most common type, etc. Over time plasma has just gotten less and less appealing.

It's like what happened with transports, only without the backswing. In 3rd transports were too good. So 4th nerfed the crap out of them. So then GW make them dirt cheap, but then 5th ALSO gave them better rules. Hence, we have transporthammer.

Niiai wrote:What are you getting at Jihalla?

He's stating the fact that those poor poor space wolves can only take a lot of meltaguns and missile launchers.

Mustela wrote:

Niiai wrote:What are you getting at Jihalla?

He's stating the fact that those poor poor space wolves can only take a lot of meltaguns and missile launchers.

Yes, apparently poor wolves only get meltaguns and missile launchers, and this is all that they can take.

Asides from PP on GH

The more we live in the internet world, the more we put our tactics and strategy in a smaller and smaller box.

Ailaros wrote:I can still see two places where they are hypothetically useful.

The first is in big combined guard squads where the guardsmen are given plasma guns. In this case, you're looking to use plasma and FRF to take down something as much as you possibly can BEFORE the bad guys make it into close combat. The difference between a dead demon prince and a 1-wound demon prince can mean a fair number of guardsmen, especially if you don't have power weapons (or, of course, you could take power blobs instead, but that's another matter).

The second is on khorne berzerkers. A huge number of S5 attacks on the charge (or S6 if you like krak), and S9/8 power fist attacks makes them good against most vehicles within 12", and their huge number of attacks in general makes them good against most infantry models. Where berzerkers fall somewhat flat is against terminators, tough MCs, and fast vehicles. With a pair of plasma pistols or three, that berzerker squad is now looking at a pair of S7 AP2 hits at up to an 18" threat range, which basically ameliorates all three of the berzerker's problems.

Not that I'd necessarily take plasma pistols in either of these cases, but it's not insanity either.

I agree with both. I've taken the bait and put plasma pistols on my berserkers once or twice, and if they aren't running (which they weren't that game), the pistols really help. Especially since berserkers can't take ANY tank busting special weapons (besides the combi or MB on the skull champion, which are both unsatisfactory in most cases). I blew up a ravager with a plasma pistol that game!

I've also seen mass plasma spam really ruin a good game. It's to be feared, especially when your opponent is mad enough to take sponson PCs. I seen it! I seen it with me own eye!

My Grey Hunters usually take one or two in Razorback squads... Seeing a surprising number of Terminators out there these days... Expensive, but usually I can find a use for them...

The only time I even think about taking them is if there just aren't any other options. Melta and Infernus are just better options if they are available.

I recently put up an ebay auction for 6 of them and it didn't even sell for $1 so that should tell you something.

I am currently using some plasma in a BA assault Squad. Sgt with Pistol and 2 plasma guns. The DoA lets me drop in the right spot, and the plasma does the rest. I only use one and have 2 other assault squads made out in flamer and melta, but the effect on my opponent is rather bad. They want to shoot the plasma squad, but then the assault units will tag them where it can hurt the most. One extra plasma shot has saved the day for popping transports more than once. 5 plasma at 12" in more manageable than 3 metla at 6" (sgt has inferno pistol) don't you think?

While I agree that plasma has taken a hit in 5th, it is viable to put in an army, though basing your army on it would be a mistake. All things in moderation and used correctly, as one would say.

While plasma curently stinks in 5th ed by being over-costed & grossly out-preformed by melta spam, my gut tells me that 6th ed is likely going to shift us back to more of the 'good old days' of 'plasma fest'...
I doubt plasma upgrades will ever go back down to the ludicrously cheap costs of 3rd ed, but I could see them dropping down to 10pts - especially the pistol. (depending on the changes to the rapid fire rules, plasma guns could stay at the price of a grey hunter)

For this reason alone, I've just kept my plasma guns/pistols tucked away safe and sound instead of re-modeling/selling them.



Now, there are still a few squads who can make good use of plasma currently;
- infiltrating or outflanking chaos marine chosen w/5 plasma guns will frighten anyone who's brought lots of 2+ saves and/or T5+ critters. havocs can take a 'modest' 4 PG's, but they compete with too much other stuff for those heavy slots...
- chaos & SW termies can take combi-plasmas for a cheap 'ont-hit-wonder' when it's needed, or else use them one or two at a time to pop transports as they advance.
- smurf command squads can take bikes + 5 plasma guns for a mobile, relentless ap2 'death squad'. T5/FnP makes them a pain to remove! BA's can do similar but with jump packs + DoA.
- sternguard can also load up on combi-plasmas for a rather angry alpha-strike when deployed via drop pod.

All these options are expensive for sure, but they can be pretty damn devastating too!

My biggest problem with plasma weapons is that they blow up. I just can't get over the idea that an expensive weapon would take out my own model. A zerker with PP is a 21+15=36 point investment. Yet on average the pistol will blow itself up by the end of the game, killing the zerker with odds of 1 in 3. This means it actually costs 15+36/3=27 pts per pistol (base cost plus damage to army). That is a ridiculous cost, which can pay for a normal CSM with a melta!

I think GW should drop the "gets hot" rule on all man-portable plasma, and increase cost if needed. Then it will be worth my time.

Right now, the only way plasma pistols and plasma guns make sense is on cheap guardsmen on veterans in IG, where taking casualties is a way of life, and sacrificing some so the rest can live is the philosophy. If the plasma overheats, it takes out a 5 pt guardsman or a 8 pt veteran, not a 21 point berzerker. Even when accounting for armor save, 5*2/3=3.3 pts for guardsman, 8*2/3=5.3 pts for a veteran, but 21/3=7 pts for a zerker.

The way to mitigate the overheating issue is to be judicious about the use of the pistols - do you really need to shoot them in each particular situation? If you are assaulting a transport, shoot. If you are assaulting something you can beat in CC anyway, it is better not to risk it. This makes them more bearable, but then you are stuck with a 15 pt upgrade that you use only occasionally.

I personally go melta all the way and proxy my plasma gun models for meltas. Hopefully, 6th edition will fix this.

In my SoB army I run a lot of plasma pistols, but that is really only because the vast bulk of my VSS models are equipped with it and I am too lazy to mod them, besides they are far more worth the points than a PW on a battle sister (they die in CC, PW or no). And the ability to snipe vehicle rear armor is usually usefull, especially against Orks (I have killed so many trukks that way).

Like 626 said, they may get better, and if they do I am SO PREPARED. I can bring back all my plasma rifle guardsmen, and my plasma pistol BA.

The only time I use plasma pistols is when playing the Space Marine game on my PC.

In 40k, they just are not worth the points.

Plasma pistols are only worth it in BS4 units already kitted out with plasma guns, or in units that don't have ANY other options. The only guys I would put them on in a Guard force if I had spare points would be the Company Commander or a veteran sergeant, they are simply not worth it anywhere else, as regular sergeants and the commissar risk killing themselves, ruining the killing power of the blob.

To be fair, when your just about to charge a unit and you pop a few plasmas first, theres nothing quite like your own champion blowing himself up.
Lots of Plasma does make for interesting friendly games, especially before when they could rapid-fire.

I wouldn't take a pistol at the moment though, they are not worth it, though if they were a bit cheaper, i'd gladly take a whole unit of therm.