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K. So I know I've said SOB were going to be my next army and I really wanted them but after thinking it over I figure I minus well wait for a real Codex and some plastic models, plus i just wasn't into them after reading the WD ' codex'.

Now to the point. Looks like I can't get past Eldar, I've got an eldar army as my first and favorite and now after thinking it over and some impulse buying I've landed back on space elves this time Dark Elves.

Yes I know they're hard to play and a small mistake is a big mistake for them but I like 'em.

Now where I need help.

What I've got to start:

(5) Hellions
(1) Raider
(10) Incubi
(10) Wyches

It may seem random and it is but they're off Ebay and Still in boxes.

I want a fast army and want to be in the enemies faces ASAP.

My friends and I usually play 1500 pts. Don't let this sway any advice for making a completely Destructive army, we play for keeps, well atleast I do.

I was thinking, HQ wise, Lelith and Vect, I know he's expensive but a 4+ initiative steal is nice for a fagile fast army.

So any and all experience and do's and don'ts you can tell me about is much apreciated.

Thanks for looking.

Double Thanks for any advice

I would recommend you read through this thread, and the other threads by the OP.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/357250.page

My experience is watching your cover and choosing your engagements very very carefully.
Here are some bullet points that are probably obvious but just incase.

Use cover at all times, if your raider cannot [move 12" - deploy troops 2" - run 1-6" than assault 6"] on a single turn than move it into a large piece of terrain to obtain the 4+ obscure save. So many raiders are lost through badly picked cover.

Keep witches spread to max 2" coherancy in order to avoid artillery strikes if facing a blasty enemy (Low Toughness and low armour makes blasts deadly)

Always ensure that your HQ enters base contact with the correct model. For example with tyranids a lashwhip will make you initiative 1 or a broodlord will psychic attack you in order to completely cancel your turn in assault.

Sometimes sacrifice your fast attack in order to avoid greater losses elsewhere, locking in devastator squads or holding back assault units/HQ from counter-charging.

Your HQ can steal a cheeky token if needed, if a group accidentally gains a pain token than join your HQ into it and steal it, the rules state that the tokens need to divide equally when they leave but since its one token you can take it on anyone.

Helions can pluck a HQ away with hit and run, although its use is questionable it is a handy way to get your wyches into assault earlier, fleet and charge into the now closer HQ (and get that paintoken).

If against an assault army keep moving your vehicles every turn, even if they return to the start, they gain a 4+ save from assaults and can still fire all their weapons.

Now I have never played with vect so I am afraid I don't know how to give advice on him.
Lelith Hespereax is my current HQ and the most important advice I can give you is to try not to be afraid to assault with her. She has 3+ invulnerable save and a built-in shardnet impaler so getting into the thick of base contact is essential (just remember what I said about base contact with the wrong thing). Also don't forget that she has a built-in shardnet impaler.

I always play Vect, even at 1000 points, he is a game changer.

I thiink what you need to decide is what do you want for troops? Do you want Hellions for speed, or assault with wyches, or venom and blaster spam, or do you want to mix it up with Wracks?

My tournament DE army is based around Wracks. Put them in a raider with a Haemonculi and shoot them forward. I would argue this produces a faster army than the other combination. While the same tactics with wyches is equally fast, wyches die not in combat. Rather than worry about cover I can leave my stuff in the open (with FF) and get it as close to the enemy as possible. A standard wrack is has FNP plus a 6+, so better save than a wych, plus it has a higher toughness and with the Haemonculi can reroll failed to wounds against T4 or lower. That means you wound MEQ on 75% of your hits. Not to mention wracks can take APd6 flamers.

Wrack commercial over.

Sasori wrote:I would recommend you read through this thread, and the other threads by the OP.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/357250.page

This, also link in my sig - which has some other links as well in Part 4.

Read the above links!

Decide whether you want a kabal list, a wych cult list, or a Haemonculus coven list...

OR a mix'n match list!

.......Stay away from Hellions (probably) and Mandrakes definitely......

Check out dash's and Thor's links, they're some of the best tactica's out there for DE.

I wouldn't use lelith, she's terribly overcosted and not terribly killy, with only S3 she only averages 2 wounds vs T4.

Vect is far far too expensive for 1000, he becomes more viable around 2500. Even then I'd argue there are better things to spend your points on.

Hellions rock, but only with the baron and a few pain tokens.

i dunno....vect is pretty bad ass. preferred enemy... sieze init on 4+, power weapon that wounds on 3+, 12" orbs that can regen his wounds... plus he packs a shadow field and a great stat line. team him up with 4 incubi on a venom makes a pretty good CC unit.

that said, that unit is also close to 400 points... so a sizable chunk of army.

definitly check out dash's guide and the other articles mentioned. some points from my own games...

- venoms are pure killy goodness. take as many of these as possible.
- wyches work pretty well in CC but need more then 5 - so load em on raiders.
- ive found that a warrior squad with splinter cannons and splinter racks on a raider makes a pretty good anti infantry unit. 4 trueborn with 2 carbines and 2 cannons with the duke also does a nice job of shredding any foot units.
- 4 trueborn +4 blasters +venom = win. and dirt cheap to boot.
-ravagers are staple. 3 of them in every army.

otherwise i suggest picking a theme and going with it. either kill enemy at CC or at range... but try to focus straight on one, with maybe a unit or 2 as back up in your opposite. i've found that when i try to split up and go half shooty half choppy, i end up with one half fighting the entire enemy army and the other does nothing or gets killed fast.

Vect on the charge has 7 attacks with PE and 3+ power weapon at I7 or 8. That in practice takes out 5 MEQ. Unless he fails his 2+ against a fist he is stuck in and will keep killing. The 4+ seize changes how your opponent deploys, giving you heads up in every game no matter who actually goes first. I think that advantage, plus a unit which easily can kill things much more expensive is worth the points.

Archibald_ Buggerfingers wrote:Vect is far far too expensive for 1000, he becomes more viable around 2500. Even then I'd argue there are better things to spend your points on.

You don't think he is viable at 1500 or 2000? What are you spending your points on to get to 2500 that you don't have your FOC loaded and have better things to spend points on. I am calling crap on that statement.

Mathematically, Vect dishes out 3 wounds, not 5, against MEQ T4. (7 attacks)*(0.66 to hit)*(0.66 to wound) = 3.05 wounds. Mind you, he causes the same amount of wounds against any opponent, including T6 or monstrous creatures which is awesome. However, why anyone would assault monstrous creatures and high toughness characters instead of just shooting them with 4+ poisoned guns is beyond me. Vect really isn't that useful. Dark eldar close combat elements are used to take out average stuff (MEQ GEQ and the like where the fighting isn't fair) and Dark eldar shoot everything else. You don't need Vect. What you need is a high volume of wounds dished out (wyches with furious charge for example) for the lowest cost possible. PWs and DE ICs not worth it and not useful.

First off thunderpanda I think you forgot that Vect rerolls to hit against everyone so .66 is not right either.

Now with that said. Venomspam is king of the DE right now. Some people run portal lists but I sincerly think venomspam wins out. So the basics of venomspam is venoms and MSU. Normally 4-5 5 man squads with a blaster in the 2SC (splintercannon) venom will be troops backed up by 1-2 squads of 9 wyches in a raider w/FF. Now some people will tell you to take NS but I don't because anything that can hurt you at range ie. a lascannon will be in range if your DL can hit it. Same thing for the blasters up close but this time assault cannons and the like will be in range so save the points. These wyches should have a hekatrix with an agoniser and have 1 of the 3 wych weapons. I prefer the razorflail. They get joined by a haemy, that gives them FNP.

Typically Elites will be blasterborn or 4 truebron with 4 blasters in venoms. I run a squad of 5 Incubi as anymore is too killy. What I mean by that is that you kill of the entire enemy squad only to sit their while they level every available bolter at your exposed (expensive) unit.

FA is beasts, scourges, and reaver territory. The first two being my prefered choices. While HS is dominated by the Ravagers.

Basically I tend to stay away from hellions as I don't feel they work that well without Baron. Basically hug cover and don't let an enemy bring his high S guns against a vehilce. In otherwords once its stunned/shaken move on. Use cover to block LOS where possible and get into range. Venomspam is king when the enemy has no armor left to threaten you.

The few times I've used vect I take 4 incubi in a venom and attach vect. Not only does this give me 10 venoms in the list, but it provides a decent assault unit. And if used to max potential, vect is dirty. His orbs should take out 1-2 models before the charge, then he has 7 attacks hitting on 3 usually, with rerolls, so I figure an average of 6 hits and 4-5 wounds. Backed up by incubi it's a unit that can just slaughter almost anything. MC etc will fall to vets. Power weapon, but I prefer to just shoot those with venoms anyway. He does sort of need backup though, if only to acsess a transport so he can get to the fight. Bloodbrides with shard nets also kind of work well here, and the attack reduction should help keep them alive a touch longer.