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Ok here is the situation
you have a Necron lord that joins a unit of warriors,
they get wiped in HTH combat,
the lord passes his ever living rule
2 ghost arcs within 6 inches of the lord, would they be able to add warriors back to the lord?

he is treated as a upgraded model of the unit... and a ghost arc says "nominate a squad of warriors within 6".....

Curious about this myself. For now I'd just roll a dice on it 4 up yes 321 no.

The Necron Warrior unit is wiped, so it is gone. No Ghost Ark can help them now.

Chowderhead wrote:The Necron Warrior unit is wiped, so it is gone. No Ghost Ark can help them now.

but the lord (RC lord) is part of the unit.. he cannot leave it...
that is my only real argument...

Chowderhead is correct I beleive. Once that Necron Warrior squad is gone, their gone. The Lord can still get back up, but just him. That is my interpretation of the rules.

Characters do not count as part of the unit for resurrection protocols - P.29

junk wrote:Characters do not count as part of the unit for resurrection protocols - P.29

Ah, but this isn't RP. It's the Ghost Ark adding warriors to a warrior unit.

I tend to play it as the Lord becoming a separate unit similar to a Royal Court once the warriors with him are dead. So no, it can't happen.

I think the answer to this is should be the same as how you determine if the lord is still scoring. So if you play that the lord/cryptek is still a scoring unit once all the warriors are dead, then following the same logic the ghost arc can add warriors to it. If you don't play that the now lone lord/cryptek can't score, then I would say the arc can't add warriors.

Thats just my 2 cents.

Using the Space Wolf FAQ as precedent, then they are scoring in all cases if joined to a troops unit, no exceptions.

Technically the warrior unit is still there, as the lord is a member of the unit.

Pretty much repeating here

Despite not being independant and part of the squad, the lord is character. Under the Reanimation Protocol rules of what cannot be attempted:

"Note that characters do not count as part of the unit for the purposes of Reanimation Protocols - if a character is the only survivor of a unit..."

When the last warrior dies, their gone. and the character is alone

"for the purposes of Reanimation Protocols "

Except this isnt RP, so that line is irrelevant.

Character may be alone, but he is still a part of the Warrior unit(this is not for ICs, only Lords/Crypteks); this is the exact same as Wolfguard assigned to Grey hunters/Blood Claws, the assigned model is in every way a part of the unit he is assigned to.

So the EL character does not allow for the unit to attempt RP rolls when he is the only one alive, but the Ghost arc Repair barge rules care not for RP rolls, and simply ads d3 models to the unit(which is still the warrior unit).

Any other reading would have any Cryptek/Lord assigned Warrior unit never being able to utilize the repair barge rule(as it would no longer be a Warrior unit, but rather a Warrior+Cryptek/Lord unit).

Not to mention that if this trick doesn't work then neither does the abyssal staff+deathmark trick.

Wrong. According to RAW this can never occur.

The lord was joined to a unit when it died. It MUST be placed within coherency according to RP, which states clearly that it must get up in coherency of another model in the unit that did not get up that phase from RP. Since there are no such models the lord may not be placed, and as such this situation does not arise.

The other, and RAI scenario, is that the lord still gets to roll due to ever living. In this case, you MUST use the rules in everliving that pertain to a lord that is not joined to a unit, in this case (as per the rules you used to allow you to make the roll) the lord is no longer part of the warrior unit and thus cannot be a valid target for "a unit of warriors".


Pertinent rules:

Reanimation protocols: "once the last model has been removed as a casualty, remove all your counters. Note that characters do not count as part of the unit for purposes of reanimation protocols - if a character is the only survivor of a unit, his presence is not sufficient to allow a reanimation protocols roll..."

Everliving: "If the model had joined the unit when it was removed as a casualty, and the roll was passed, it MUST be returned to play, with a single wound, as explained in reanimation protocols."

Reanimation protocols: "... Models that cannot be placed in this way do not return."


Again, the second and more sane RAI interpretation is that the lord still gets to make the EL roll (this is backed up by Matt Ward in the Necron WD issue), but in order for that roll to be made, you must use the rules in EL that only pertain to a lord that has not joined a unit. Ergo, the lord is not part of the unit of warriors when it returns into play.

WanderingFox wrote:Wrong. According to RAW this can never occur.

The lord was joined to a unit when it died. It MUST be placed within coherency according to RP, which states clearly that it must get up in coherency of another model in the unit that did not get up that phase from RP. Since there are no such models the lord may not be placed, and as such this situation does not arise.

The other, and RAI scenario, is that the lord still gets to roll due to ever living. In this case, you MUST use the rules in everliving that pertain to a lord that is not joined to a unit, in this case (as per the rules you used to allow you to make the roll) the lord is no longer part of the warrior unit and thus cannot be a valid target for "a unit of warriors".


Pertinent rules:

Reanimation protocols: "once the last model has been removed as a casualty, remove all your counters. Note that characters do not count as part of the unit for purposes of reanimation protocols - if a character is the only survivor of a unit, his presence is not sufficient to allow a reanimation protocols roll..."

Everliving: "If the model had joined the unit when it was removed as a casualty, and the roll was passed, it MUST be returned to play, with a single wound, as explained in reanimation protocols."

Reanimation protocols: "... Models that cannot be placed in this way do not return."


Again, the second and more sane RAI interpretation is that the lord still gets to make the EL roll (this is backed up by Matt Ward in the Necron WD issue), but in order for that roll to be made, you must use the rules in EL that only pertain to a lord that has not joined a unit. Ergo, the lord is not part of the unit of warriors when it returns into play.

What are you on about?

none of that changes the facts that when the lord/Cryptek is the last surviving model in the warrior unit a Ghost arc can add warrior models to that warrior unit.

RP never enters into this discussion; well not the situation myself and most were discussing; the OP's situation of the lord passing his EL RP roll and then the ghost arc doing it's thing cannot currently happen.

In the event that the lord/cryptek remained alive, while the rest of the unit was wiped, then the ghost ark can add models to the unit.

"they get wiped in HTH combat,
the lord passes his ever living rule "

^^^ It enters right there.

The WHOLE argument hinges on whether or not the lord gets back up into the unit of now dead warriors, or if it gets back up into a new unit.

WanderingFox wrote:"they get wiped in HTH combat,
the lord passes his ever living rule "

^^^ It enters right there.

The WHOLE argument hinges on whether or not the lord gets back up into the unit of now dead warriors, or if it gets back up into a new unit.

This was just an example...let's just say all the warriors are killed except for the lord/cryptek, from shooting (LD test is passed). The question is, can models now be added to the unit via the ghost ark?

I say yes, if anyone cares.

In that case there is no rules that stop you.

That said, that's all RAW. RAI it's fairly obvious that when the lord is by itself its no longer part of the warrior unit, but that's pure assumption until we get a FAQ entry about it.


... This is why I hate Matt Ward codecs. Nothing is ever written properly. In fact I think the necron codex is the worst one in a long time... Wee self-contradictory rules.

RAI is not that clear at all, based on WG which most definitely ARE part of the unit they joined. In fact the Lord not being part of the unit any longer creates a whole slew of problems.

This is why I like MW codexes - INTERESTING rules that change the way we look at the game, rather than 10 point missiles and asinine sniping of models

Why is the lord treated as an upgraded model of the unit? I can't find this in the codex at the moment, anyone have a page number?

Edit: Nvm found it

Necron lords don't have the Independant Character special rule therefore they obviously don't abide by the IC ruling. They are a type called "Infantry-Character" but I cannot really find anything that actually clarifies what that means.
Until then it looks like it counts as an upgraded unit, like a space marine sergeant, and therefore can be reinforced.

The issue is that no where in the necron codex does it state that.

We only can assume how it works based on similar rules. The issue of course arises in the fact that there is no general rules for this kind of model. The only thing we have is the SW wolf guard, but that's SW specific, and while it provides some insight, it is by no means enough to properly detail how the royal court works.

As far as we know the royal court models could function like a retinue to the unit they join, in which case the royal court model would be freed of the unit when the rest of the unit dies (this kind of thinking is also supported by how ever living is supposed to work).

WanderingFox wrote:The issue is that no where in the necron codex does it state that.

We only can assume how it works based on similar rules. The issue of course arises in the fact that there is no general rules for this kind of model. The only thing we have is the SW wolf guard, but that's SW specific, and while it provides some insight, it is by no means enough to properly detail how the royal court works.

As far as we know the royal court models could function like a retinue to the unit they join, in which case the royal court model would be freed of the unit when the rest of the unit dies (this kind of thinking is also supported by how ever living is supposed to work).

Either the model is an upgrade to the unit and counts as part of the unit for all intents and purposes (including the ability to make RP rolls if the lord/cryp is the last one standing, benefiting from unit specific rules, etc) or they are not an upgrade and never count toward the units size nor benefit from the units abilities. You see the problem here though is that if you split the lord/cryp away from the royal court, you now have a model on the board that is no longer a kill point. They're not an IC and they're not a unit. So, either they "are" an upgrade character to that unit and then count as one of that unit for ALL intents and purposes (hunters from hyperspace, ghost ark repairing, bloodswarm nanoscarabs, etc...) or they don't count as part of the unit and break all sorts of things.

Or they function like a retinue.

The issue here is no one knows how they work. Everyone is making guesses.

For all we know they could function like ICs that cannot willingly leave the unit.

The issue is of course that the wording is vague...

WanderingFox wrote:Or they function like a retinue.

The issue here is no one knows how they work. Everyone is making guesses.

For all we know they could function like ICs that cannot willingly leave the unit.

The issue is of course that the wording is vague...

Don't retinues specify they are retinues though?

hence 'like'

It wouldn't be exactly like a retinue since in this case the warriors would be the retinue to the cryptek. I was just pointing out that it does not necessarily need to function like the SW wolf guard.

WanderingFox wrote:hence 'like'

It wouldn't be exactly like a retinue since in this case the warriors would be the retinue to the cryptek. I was just pointing out that it does not necessarily need to function like the SW wolf guard.

Ya, but it's nothing like retinues at all, that's all I'm saying. Though I agree with others here that, even though it's very similar to wolf guard, it's still not wolf guard and we can't go off of how they operate necessarily. But, unfortunately, it's the closest thing to relate to.

It is NOTHING like a retinue, as a retinue requires an IC that cannot leave, acting as a UC, and that reverts to an IC.

The assigned model acts most clearly as a UC for the unit

It actually is identical in wording to Wolf Guard, except that you replace the unit names of course.