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I felt this was the closest forum to what I was looking for. But this has been coming up in the group that I play in so I figured that I would ask here.

I have Two Weapon Wielder (MELEE) with Swift Attack & Lightning attack in my character.

TWW(M): You can use a Single Handed weapon in each hand to attack with.
Swift Attack:(Half Action) You get 1 hit for every 2 degrees of success up to Weapon Skill Modifier.
Lightning Attack:(Half Action) You get 1 hit for every 1 degree of success up to Weapon Skill Modifer.

Now the question is that in the book it says that you can Lightning/Swift attack with each hand for T.W.W. but I keep butting heads with another player over how it would work.

The way that I see it is this:
First Half Action: (Right hand)Lightning Attack, (Left hand) Lightning attack
SecondHalf Action: (Right hand)Lightning Attack, (Left hand) Lightning attack

He see's it as this:
First Half Action: (Right hand)Lightning Attack, (Left hand) Swift attack[Combined up to Weapon Skill Modifier] or standard attack
SecondHalf Action: (Right hand)Lightning Attack, (Left hand) Swift attack[Combined up to Weapon Skill Modifier] or standard attack

Uh, wrong section?

You're looking for the RPG subforum.


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Hate to say it, but you are both wrong.

You can never repeat the same Action in a turn, and you can never make two actions in the same turn with the same Action Subtype (Ranged, Melee, Concentration, Movement, etc.). So you cannot make two Swift Attacks in the same turn as two separate half actions (because you can’t take the same action twice) and you can’t make a Swift and a Lightning Attack in the same turn because they have the same Action Subtypes.

With TWW you make an attack with both hands as part of the same half action. Each weapon can be used to make either a standard, swift or lightning attack (assuming you have the required talents).

So, assuming you had Swift and Lightning Attack and Two-Weapon Wielder Melee, you could, as a single half-action:

Left Hand: Standard Attack
Right Hand: Standard Attack

Left Hand: Standard Attack
Right Hand: Swift Attack

Left Hand: Standard Attack
Right Hand: Lightning Attack

Left Hand: Swift Attack
Right Hand: Standard Attack

Left Hand: Swift Attack
Right Hand: Lightning Attack

Left Hand: Swift Attack
Right Hand: Swift Attack

Left Hand: Lightning Attack
Right Hand: Standard Attack

Left Hand: Lightning Attack
Right Hand: Swift Attack

Left Hand: Lightning Attack
Right Hand: Lightning Attack

Your other half action that turn could be used to do something else, as long as it wasn’t a repeat of the first half action and as long as the Subtypes were different (you could take an Aim action, for instance, to give all of these rolls a +10).

H.B.M.C. wrote:Hate to say it, but you are both wrong.

You can never repeat the same Action in a turn, and you can never make two actions in the same turn with the same Action Subtype (Ranged, Melee, Concentration, Movement, etc.). So you cannot make two Swift Attacks in the same turn as two separate half actions (because you can’t take the same action twice) and you can’t make a Swift and a Lightning Attack in the same turn because they have the same Action Subtypes.

With TWW you make an attack with both hands as part of the same half action. Each weapon can be used to make either a standard, swift or lightning attack (assuming you have the required talents).

So, assuming you had Swift and Lightning Attack and Two-Weapon Wielder Melee, you could, as a single half-action:

Left Hand: Standard Attack
Right Hand: Standard Attack

Left Hand: Standard Attack
Right Hand: Swift Attack

Left Hand: Standard Attack
Right Hand: Lightning Attack

Left Hand: Swift Attack
Right Hand: Standard Attack

Left Hand: Swift Attack
Right Hand: Lightning Attack

Left Hand: Swift Attack
Right Hand: Swift Attack

Left Hand: Lightning Attack
Right Hand: Standard Attack

Left Hand: Lightning Attack
Right Hand: Swift Attack

Left Hand: Lightning Attack
Right Hand: Lightning Attack

Your other half action that turn could be used to do something else, as long as it wasn’t a repeat of the first half action and as long as the Subtypes were different (you could take an Aim action, for instance, to give all of these rolls a +10).

I went back threw my copy of Deathwatch, I don't have Black Crusade on me at the moment and you are Correct H.B.M.C. Seems all of us have missed that little clause in Half Actions. So that salves what I do with the send half of my action. But we do agree that I can left and Right hand Lightning Attack. Just have to convince that other player of that.

While I cannot (and do not) claim to speak on behalf of FFG, consider my answer above as close to official as an unofficial answer can get. I'm fairly well versed in the 40K RPG combat rules given I've been involved in writing some of them and as a result had to learn the ones from previous books backwards.

H.B.M.C. wrote:While I cannot (and do not) claim to speak on behalf of FFG, consider my answer above as close to official as an unofficial answer can get. I'm fairly well versed in the 40K RPG combat rules given I've been involved in writing some of them and as a result had to learn the ones from previous books backwards.

Thanks, the two of us talked last night and it seems that both of us where right on things and just could not get our information across on the areas that we where in agreement with.

Just as long as you aren't making 4 attacks a turn, you should be ok!

H.B.M.C. wrote:Just as long as you aren't making 4 attacks a turn, you should be ok!

Well, if I combo things out I can get a max of 6 Attack's a turn based off of different abilities and gifts.
Two Weapon Wielder(Left and Right hand) and a Tail combined with Furious Assault that allows you a second attack with each limb.

Well yes, stacking different abilities sure, but I meant not making a Attack/Attack with TWW, and then doing another Attack/Attack as a second half-action. That would be against the rules.

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Left Hand: Lightning Attack
Right Hand: Lightning Attack

Was going threw the talents section and you can't Two-Weapon Wield(Melee) this combo. It is written under the Swift Attack section, last paragraph, which I find completely odd that they would have it posted there instead of under Lightning Attack..

Yeah that is a really weird place for it.

Hmm... I don't necessarily agree with it. It seems to be:

1. Arbitrary.
2. Contradicts the Combat rules.
3. Something that should be in the overall Combat rules.
4. If not the Combat Rules then it shouldn't be in the Swift Attack Talent, it should be in the Lightning Attack talent.

If it's to do with game balance, then I can live with it, but it needs to be very clear in the Lightning Attack Action (and not the Swift Attack Talent) that multiple Lightning Attacks aren't possible.

I completely agree with you H.B.M.C. It seems like FFG did not give BC to a proof reader before sending it off to the BL to publication.

Unfortunately, poor proofreading is a common failing with FFG. I know they've got time limits and budgets to stick to, but there are some pretty rudimentary errors.

It's a shame to see such otherwise good material marred by missing/flawed equipment profiles (which wouldn't be quite so big a deal if they actually updated the Errata a bit more often. For supposedly "living" documents, they're very out of date.) and plentiful spelling errors.

BL don't print FFG's books. They do it themselves (via a mob in China).


And this isn't really a proof-reading error. This is something that appears to have been part of the rules right from the very start.

Finally, there are no mistakes* in any of the books I've proofread for them... and if you find any, the mistake was intentional!




*Except the movement value for the Mist Reaper in The Achillus Assault. That is wrong...

This is something that I was reading threw and found interesting. In the Gift of the Gods section if you get the Weapon Arm gift if you are aligned Khorne the weapon you select gains the "Tearing" Trait as it is attached to your arm permanently, but if you get the Weapon Arm gift from the Marking of Khorne then the weapon does not get the "Tearing" Trait. I find this a little funny. Why should a Favored of Khorne not gain the Weapon Trait that Khorne favors?

Are you talking about the Hand of Khorne Gift? That has its own rules - 2d10 damage for a start, Pen 8 as well.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Are you talking about the Hand of Khorne Gift? That has its own rules - 2d10 damage for a start, Pen 8 as well.

No, the Hand of Khorne Gift is I believe the gift right after the one that I am talking about.

Ok, here we go.

Mutation: Slayer Limb (Khorne): Add's the "Tearing Quality"
Gift of the God: Flesh-Fused Weapon: Does not.

Both of these do effectively the same thing but the Mutation is better then the Gift of the God.