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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/12/01 09:57:18
Subject: Necrons or Orks easier to learn with?
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Fresh-Faced New User
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I am brand new to Warhammer 40k (and tabletop war games in general). I've joined a league that is starting at 500 points and is going to go up by 500 every couple of weeks. You start with just an HQ and two troop choices and can unlock the rest of the army slots (heavy, fast, etc) as you win games. I joined figuring it would be an excellent way to get experience with the game and have some fun. I want the army I play with to be somewhat forgiving to a new player though. So I was wondering, as a new player, which of the two armies in the title would be easier to learn with? Thanks!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/12/01 11:25:11
Subject: Re:Necrons or Orks easier to learn with?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Orks have a (potentially) very high model count, even at 500 points you can probably fit 60 Boyz in. Which makes them slower to play with, if you go down that route. But they have other options, such as Kan Wall, Trukk Spam or Battle wagon spam.
I would say they are fairly easy to use, pretty simple tactics with any of the four major play styles. They can also be competitive if tournaments are something your looking to do in the future, although you will really need to know how to use them.
I don't know about the new Necrons, there are 100s of lists in the army list section because they are new, so you could check some of them out. At a guess, I would say they probably have more special rules and because they are new are not quite 100% figured out yet.
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DC:90-S+G++M--B++I+pW40k08+D++A++/eWD257R++t(S)DM+ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/12/01 12:07:35
Subject: Necrons or Orks easier to learn with?
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Thank you for the reply! The battlewagon spam sounds intriguing.
What would a list using that tactic look like?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/12/01 12:35:05
Subject: Necrons or Orks easier to learn with?
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Foolproof Falcon Pilot
Livingston, United Kingdom
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For the battlewagon spam, you can grab AoBR for a warboss, nobz and twenty boyz; the Warboss will make the nobz troops, so you've instantly got your mandatory requirements. You then get Battlewagons, give them deffrollas (for strength 10 ram attacks on other vehicles), and then stuff your troops inside. The trick is to take a Mek with Kustom Force Field; this will give a 4+ cover save to all vehicles nearby. So you put him in a centre vehicle, probably with shoota-boyz or burnas to toast stuff, and the enemy is faced with a row of AV14 vehicles all in cover. It is a touch cheesy, perhaps, but it can be a lot of fun and is certainly effective. You can almost guarantee second-turn assaults with pristine units, and Ork units on the charge are far superior to Ork units being charged. A notable drawback is the pricetag. You'll be looking at £160 for the battlewagons alone for a typical 4-wagon tournament list, plus the upgrade sprues to get the deffrolla.
For the Necrons, I don't know, but you would have the advantage of a cool new army with nice new models. The Necrons are radically different from the Orks - they are a slow army focused on shooting, whereas the Orks are a fast army focused on assault. Obviously, you can do a shooty Ork army, or an assaulty Necron army, but it isn't the most common approach. Also, you'll need fewer models, and Necrons are probably easier to paint quickly. I've been painting Orks for a year now, and have yet to reach 1k.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/12/01 13:41:36
Subject: Necrons or Orks easier to learn with?
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Bleh, that's a bit too much to be spending initially. What does a Kan wall list look like? I've always been a fan of robots, so perhaps I will go that route?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/12/01 13:42:48
Subject: Re:Necrons or Orks easier to learn with?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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9 Killa Kans, 2 KFF Big Meks, squads of 30 Boyz. Maybe some Lootas and/or Warbuggies for fire support.
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DC:90-S+G++M--B++I+pW40k08+D++A++/eWD257R++t(S)DM+ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/12/01 13:47:01
Subject: Necrons or Orks easier to learn with?
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Fresh-Faced New User
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I'm guessing what you're supposed to do is advance forwards, behind the Kans, until your Boyz are in range to charge? Correct me if I am wrong!
How does a list like this do at lower points, 500/1000?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/12/01 14:33:49
Subject: Necrons or Orks easier to learn with?
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Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot
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Pretty well but the list is also not cheap. Go on GW site look at prices. Contact your local store (if they can hook you up with a discount), or call the war store for 20% off.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/12/01 15:05:01
Subject: Necrons or Orks easier to learn with?
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Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator
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Orks are fun because they can do anything well, even shooty army lists are a breeze and very effective since they can lay down so much fire for so cheap. They have a wide variety of tactics available and work well both for new players and advanced ones. The typical advice is, choose a style and go all out. Assault, shooty, vehicle, horde, choose one tactic and really focus on it and they can be very dangerous. But try and balance and you will just be weak at everything.
Unfortunately, they are expensive and time consuming to paint as they use a lot of models. This can be somewhat mitigated by buying up Assault on Black Reach orks off eBay, but that somewhat limits your options as you always get slugga/choppa (pistol/close combat weapon) combo and can't choose either the shoota or big choppa options (though you get a few big shoota boys, and you can mod them if you want). Orks are also fun to paint as their big muscles lend themselves to tons of great looking techniques for all levels of skill. You can dry brush them, wash them, or draw individual sinews.
Necrons are an all together different bag. Oldcrons were VERY new player friendly. New ones, not so much. They are all about tricks, combo's, synergy, and tactically positioning your enemy. They don't have much long range punch, are incredibly powerful at mid range, but weak at a close range, but if you let things get in to mid range (where you strength is) they will probably be able to assault you next turn. They lots of ways to mitigate this e.g. combos, special abilities, special units and characters, and if you can position your enemy correctly you will wipe them out, but that requires a decent amount of tactical skill and a fairly deep knowledge of their dozens of special rules. Hence why I say they aren't noob friendly.
Painting wise they are just fantastic. Every skill level can pull off something impressive. If you want to spend no time painting just break out some chrome spray paint and then dip/wash them afterwards. More advanced players can take their time with shading, rusting effects, oil effects, non-metallic metal, true-metallic metal, battle damage, object source lighting techniques, etc. And now that their egyption dynasty themes are being pushed the door has been really opened for some more opulent effects: gold, copper, brass, patina, marbling, etc.
They will likely be cheaper than orks, but not cheap. Their new models are fancy, but pricey. From vehicle to troops, everything seems to be more expensive than their marine counterparts, save maybe the monolith.
I would recommend either, but know that playing as Necrons is going to be tougher, and you will likely lose more games in the beginning. They have tons of special rules, viable builds, and two miss-steps in a game can easily result in a loss. On the plus side they not only have lots of builds, but lots of tactics within those builds. They also seem like they may be an upper tier codex in the long run.
Orks are much more forgiving and very balanced, though they may have less flexibility than the 'crons within their builds. One way or another you are just focusing on rolling LOTS of dice, shooty or choppy. Special rules and trickery don't come into it as much, though they still have some really fun tricks up their sleeve. They are always a riot too. Once a player starts down the Orky path, they rarely go back. Their fluff, their feel, their style; in a big way they are the heart and soul of 40k.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/12/01 15:07:06
Subject: Necrons or Orks easier to learn with?
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Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
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It can do alright, as a maxed outs boys squad with a nob and klaw is 220 points, and you can fit 2 of those, plus, a Cheaper HQ at 500 points, Alternatively, as I saw someone else say, you cannot use the Kanz right at the beginning, so starting with black reach, You get a boss with a klaw and twin linked shoota, 90 points, 20 boys with big shootas, 170 points, and 5 nobz with big choppas, 125 points. If you added one box of boys, you could add another big shoota, 5 points, 10 boys, 60 points, one upgraded to a nob, 10 points, with a klaw, 25 points, and a bosspole, 5 points, give you boss a Cybork Body, and an Attack Squig, which come out as 25 points, tack Eavy Armour on the Nobz, for another 25 points, and you have exactly 500, you got this, for 100 USD, I don't know about british pounds, and now you have some space marines to sell to make some money back, in addition, when your points value raises you have 3 deffkoptas, 35 points a piece, plus TL Rokkits, another 10 a piece.. If you can convert buzz saws, you can make scouting transport killers, or you can konvert them into buggies for some light armour anti tank, either way black reach is BEST deal your going to get, any way your best off starting there, if you want horde, but more boyz, if you want mech, but Trukks and BWs, and if you want Kan wall, but Kanz. Have fun with your army, I am an ork player and I started with black reach, its a really great starting point, and WAAGH!!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/12/01 15:14:19
Subject: Necrons or Orks easier to learn with?
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Sister Vastly Superior
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Well, Orks are fairly easy to start with, at least on the table. They tend to be more about the assault and movement phases than shooting. Despite some fun and different rules, they don't rely on unit combinations nearly as much as Necrons do.
The flipside to that, as folks here have pointed out, is that with the exception of a couple of builds Orks are not a small army and their golden rule of 'Boyz Before Toyz' still holds true. Even in a 500 point list, you can very easily bring upwards of 50 models.
The Ork Codex is also a very good collector's Codex. The units are diverse and there's definitely the urge to have some of everything to bring out. For example, I don't have any Warbikers, Big Guns, Deff Koptas or Flash Gitz yet, but I definitely will. In fact, Flash Gitz and Deff Koptas are among my next painting projects. Combine this with a horde army and you've got a pretty expensive investment. I can definitely say though that Orks are goofy and fun, so take from that what you will.
Necrons though are actually the opposite. Their rules are more complicated than Orks and their army relies on combinations of units working together. Their model count is much lower than Orks and the painting is generally easier (though the detail level of some of the newer models definitely lets people spread their wings in terms of painting).
Both armies are good choices and you've certainly hit some divergent options.
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- Deathskullz - 6000 points
- Order of the Sacred Rose - 2000 points |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/12/01 15:23:06
Subject: Necrons or Orks easier to learn with?
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Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk
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I don't see how orks are more expensive than any other army in the game, but still I keep reading this everywhere. Am I missing something?
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7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/12/01 15:56:42
Subject: Necrons or Orks easier to learn with?
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Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
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Depends how many boys you need, they start to cost alot over time, unless you get your hands on the black reach ones more than once..
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/12/01 21:05:13
Subject: Necrons or Orks easier to learn with?
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Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator
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Horde armies are always pricey, and orks are always a horde army, even when using vehicles. Guard and 'nids can go vehicle/monster respectively, so you have at least the option of a cheaper build. Orks, it's all horde, all the time.
On top of that the green tide may be their most effective build, and it is expensive. Boyz before toyz, as they say.
Other armies CAN be as expensive, or more expensive. But orks don't even have the option of going cheap.
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