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I was fed up with the ridiculous prices from games workshop so I decided to buy other companies' miniatures and use them as 40k minis. After seeing the similarity of forge world's death korps of kreig to ww1 soldiers, I bought a couple regiment sets of early war french from renegade miniatures. I was impressed by the quality of the miniatures and by their price. It costed me about $250 for 120 infantrymen (25 of those are command squads) and 24 hvy weapon teams. This would cost over $600 if i would have bought this amount of minis from gw. I use these minis to proxy the imperial guard or death korps of kreig (depending on my mood) I am just curious on what other gamers feel about proxied armies like mine? Do you find it acceptable for me to use an army like this?

I would happily play against this as long as your army is clearly WYSYWIG and the models are similar in size to the actual minis.

Also, I would not accept it if at an event that clearly states that only GW miniatures are allowed.

I would say "only if he clearly designates..." Though I would like to add the caveat that not only is it clearly designated, but clearly obvious. like if you proxied a marine ML for a guard one, or vice versa, that would be fine (I have been known to sub Immolators for Razorbacks as well). But I would say that they should be very close to wysiwig. I have played armies have consisted of bases with what the model would have been, but I only do that with close friends who are trying an army out before they buy, or trying out an item they want to buy.

I'm with both pretre and Armless Failure - I'd much prefer to know roughly what I'm fighting by looking at it than to have to memorize my opponent's army list and what models represent what.

Using Mantic models of the same race and with similar wargear in WFB, for example, is absolutely fine by me. Using WW1 figs as DKoK makes sense and I wouldn't take issue with bolt action rifles counting as lasguns, either, but there need to be reasonable counterparts from the proxied model line (e.g. Panzerfaust as Missile Launcher or flamethrower as Flamer if using WW2 Germans as a Guard Army) or immediately recognizable bits (historical model converted to carry GW Meltagun, for lack of decent period parallel) to distinguish specific wargear upgrades, special/heavy weapons, etc.

Almost my entire army is converted from models not-dark eldar. Buying it using the actual-release models would have cost me over £600.

I have 8 Haemonculi, 12 Grotesques, 30 Wracks, 2 Talos, a Cronos, 6 Raiders, 3 Venoms and a Razorwing.

Of that, the 6 Raiders are modified classic ones, a venom and the razorwing are officially released models.

The other 2 venoms are vyper converts, the Haemonculi and Grots are Dryads and Greenstuff and the Wracks are Plague Monks and the Talos and Cronos are scratchbuilds.

But the entire army is wysiwyg.

On top of that I'm scratchbuilding 3 titans

So long as your conversions are clean and clear there's no problem with it IMO, especially being now they're slowly pricing their players out of the game.

I don't stop him from doing it but I wouldn't have anyone to play if I did. I'd much rather fight an army of pretty models that are what they are than a medley of my old eldar and dark elves riding in books.

Most people, my self includeD won't mind playing against a proxied army, just keep in mind that some people won't want to Play you and will have the right to do so.

But of course you have to be clear what is what.

And the workers at a gamesworkshop store might ask you to leave if you aren't using any of their models.



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Most people, my self includeD won't mind playing against a proxied army, just keep in mind that some people won't want to Play you and will have the right to do so.

But of course you have to be clear what is what.

And the workers at a gamesworkshop store might ask you to leave if you aren't using any of their models.

It's also important to note that the OP is not talking about a proxied army. He is talking about a 'Counts As' army using non GW minis. Just a little distinction.

This would actually be quite fun to play if you closely followed WYSIWYG. I think that GW products end up looking identical after a while when you compare a couple of armies of the same type, so your army would stand out and make a great looking game.

pretre wrote:It's also important to note that the OP is not talking about a proxied army. He is talking about a 'Counts As' army using non GW minis. Just a little distinction.

Technically it could be considered either. But his case is one of the most overlookable. If an army looks awesome, I am willing to overlook things.

I dont usually mind if they tell me whats up.

Seing as I can never get anything finished I proxy stuff all the time. I do however have about forty wargames factory shocktroops standing in for guardsmen at the moment, a bunch of Perry miniature's Zauves as conscripts (leperous conscripts I'll point out too ^^), the odd thing from Hasslefree or similar sites and ocassionally the odd Mailifaux Trapper standing in as a sniper. Sure my entire army's been converted too, with half my guard being based off of Tau Fire Warriors , but I don't really see a problem with using another miniature to represent something. If someone's bothered to buy the figure who cares what its counting as (as long as its a vaguelly sane stand in)?

Its okay with me, but I do like to know what the model represents(gear, abilities, special rules etc). My group usually proxies some special characters before taking the plunge and buying the mini, just to see how it works out in a fight. As long as I can read up on the unit/character in their codex, I am usually good with proxies.

There's proxying (this shoebox is a Land Raider!) and there's counts-as (these grot rebels are Imperial Guard counts as [someone on Dakka did a fantastic rebel grot army using the IG codex, can't remember who]).

OP, what you speak of, assuming WYSIWYG is enforced, is really neither. It'd be more counts-as than anything. A proxy is a stand-in for the real thing when you don't have it. Shoebox land raiders, plastic cup drop pods, green toy soldier guardsmen; those are all proxies.

Using wargame factory models for IG, or any other sci-fi troop model that had WYSIWYG standards (you use meltagun bits for meltaguns, so on and so forth) is more of a counts as and is perfectly acceptable.

That said, I hate proxies. Love well done counts-as.

oadie wrote:I'm with both pretre and Armless Failure - I'd much prefer to know roughly what I'm fighting by looking at it than to have to memorize my opponent's army list and what models represent what.

Using Mantic models of the same race and with similar wargear in WFB, for example, is absolutely fine by me. Using WW1 figs as DKoK makes sense and I wouldn't take issue with bolt action rifles counting as lasguns, either, but there need to be reasonable counterparts from the proxied model line (e.g. Panzerfaust as Missile Launcher or flamethrower as Flamer if using WW2 Germans as a Guard Army) or immediately recognizable bits (historical model converted to carry GW Meltagun, for lack of decent period parallel) to distinguish specific wargear upgrades, special/heavy weapons, etc.

Nail on the head. As long as you had the bits for tech weapons like melta guns or plasma , then no issue at all. Otherwise I'd absolutely accept it

If I'm going to save up my money, and buy the proper mini's for this game, than so should you, I can handle a few proxies to test out a unit or new army list for a game or 2, but not when You ONLY field proxies...

I didn't vote because you didn't have a choice I agreed with. My choice would have been.

"Only if they were converted to accurately represent what they were being used for"

WWI figs would be great basis for converting up an IG force.

I couldn't care less if my opponent designates what is what, I don't want to have to keep track of it. Likewise, I don't care what brand the figures are, if they are modeled like what they are supposed to be.

As for your particular army, if they were fully painted, I'd play with you just to respect your dedication, however, if they are just painted and not converted, we're probably not going to play a second game.

Hard to be entirely vs count as since not every unit has a model anyway lol We cant always be sure on size. Like originally people thought the ork wagons were stolen landraiders then the model came out almost the size of a rhino instead lol Another more recent example was the storm raven and thunderwolves..