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You're breaking a posting rule. Go through and EDIT out the individual points costs. Posting them violates GW's Intellectual Property rights.
Scorchedangel767 wrote:Archon (160pts)
The blast pistol is wasted as an archon spends his time in h2h, so it gets used once or twice and then is useless. Also, with his wussy STR that Huskblade is going to have a tough time wounding MCs for the Soul Trap to kick in. MEqs are going to need 5+ anyway. Add an agonizer so that the majority of his time is decently spent trashing infantry. Then you can gamble with the huskblade when the rare IC or MC combat presents itself.
Scorchedangel767 wrote:Venom (85pts)
Over equipped. Especially NightShields since the venom is going to bring the Incs close to h2h. Strip it down to the extra Splint Can only.
Kabalite Warriors are not like Spehss Muhreens, needing everything to be kitted out. H2h sybarites are a waste because you don't want your warriors in h2h as they royally suck at it. Toss him altogether. A blaster on mounted warriors is the only good upgrade, really.
Toss the blast pistol for the reasons above. Um, they aren't slogging across the field are they? It's much better to put 'em in a raider, otherwise they'll die very easily to pretty much every gun in 40k. This would be a huge waste of points if you don't get them a raider.
Scorchedangel767 wrote: 20x Hellion (320pts)
Helliarch Stunclaw and Splinter Pistol
With points you've saved, put an agonizer in this crew.
Toss the Champ. They pretty much shouldn't be in h2h, like many other DE units. Incs, wracks and grotesques are the ones that can handle h2h in small groups.
Altogether, trim your list to 1500. With a lot of the extra upgrades, your list is "pushed"; over equipped beyond effectiveness. From 1500, add Trueborn with blasters, riding in venoms. And wyches function best with haems.
Do look over the many, many other DE lists and you'll see the direction where DE lists should be.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/03 17:34:24
"You can bring any cheesy unit you want. If you lose. Casey taught me that." -Tim S.
"I'm gonna follow Casey; he knows where the beer's at!" -Blackmoor, BAO 2013
I faced a stripped down version of this list against Scorched himself a few hours ago, the first time I faced DE since 3rd ED.
I found quite a few surprises (even against my vanilla marines), and was also pleasantly surprised to find my Sterguard and a Captain took out 10 warriors, 5 incubi, 5 scourges, and eventually a Cronos... and all of those but the Warriors were in CC.
Incubi can be freakishly scary when they jump off a Venom into your lines...
Automatically Appended Next Post: I faced a stripped down version of this list against Scorched himself a few hours ago, the first time I faced DE since 3rd ED.
I found quite a few surprises (even against my vanilla marines), and was also pleasantly surprised to find my Sterguard and a Captain took out 10 warriors, 5 incubi, 5 scourges, and eventually a Cronos... and all of those but the Warriors were in CC.
Incubi can be freakishly scary when they jump off a Venom into your lines...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/05 00:13:53
The Archon has too many toys - with a shadowfield he has no need for Ghostplate. He doesn't need the Blaster either and I would agree that the agoniser would be a better spend, saving you 40pts.
Woah, woah, woah - 240pts on 5 Incubi? Madness! Since the Archon has not friends, I'd say that you should ditch the Klaivex, run a four man Incubi squad in the venom with the Archon, saving you 67pts.
The Venom is overly tooled up, just needs the cannon 20pt saving
Sybarite isn't needed for the warriors, depending on what you want for them, I'd say maybe ditch the shredder? In their raider just with a dark lance they make a nice sniping unit 60pt saving
Raider is weighed down with a lot of unnecessary things, just flickerfields will do (though MAYBE night shields if it's a sniping raider) - 25pt saving
Why only 7 warriors in the second squad? They should trim down to 5 or up to 10 and have a ride I should think (Unless you do a webway list, which with your heavy support choices seems likely, but even then, I'd say wyches come through a portal)
Again, up to 15 and coming through a portal or down to 10 and in a raider. Hekatrix shouldn't need the pistol, use the points on Haywire grenades instead
I'm not a Hellion fan myself, but feel free to take them if you like them
Reavers are a peculiar number, cut them down to three and leave out the champion? 52pt saving
10 is a big number for what is usually a suicide squad, but they'll no doubt be effective at cracking open tanks. The solarite is unneeded though - 45pt saving.
The Cronos and Talos look fine to me
You seem to have the makings of a Webway Portal list and with the 309 points you would save from trimming the fat, I would suggest:
WWP on the Archon.
2 Haemocunli, one with the portal wyches, one somewhere on the board starting (Kabalites most probably) with another WWP to make sure you get it out.
A trueborn blaster squad of 4 in a venom with the extra splinter cannon.
That should come to 343 points more... take away the Wych weapons (further 20 saved) and take away a Wych and a Kabalite so the Haemonculi fit in those respective squads.
That should all come to a grand total of... 1995 points. Pretty solid
I like the suggestions, this list was mainly build out of the models I currently own, which is where most of the extra options came from, just so I can play test them and see what works from the codex.
Personally, I like Ghostplate + Shadowfield, it gives you something to fall back on.
However, I would switch from the Huskblade to an Agoniser, which makes it 145..
Personally, I'd run Duke Sliscus instead but that is a drop in stats overall, even with the bonus rules.
Reduce it to 10, and drop the blast pistol. If you want them in an anti-vehicle role a blast pistol is going to do diddly and they can take haywire grenades at 2pts per.
OR drop it to 9, get a Haemonculi to go with them. Haemy wants a Liquifier Gun and maybe a Venom Blade.
If you're intending to use these to deep strike and suicide, it wants to be 2 squads of 5 scourges with heat lances. (drop the reavers for it)
If you're intending to use these to deep strike and suicide, but insist on a single squad of 10, still just scourges with heat lances.
The heat lances give you a much better chance of asploding things at point blank, but at any range is almost useless.
If you're intending to use these to stick around and actually kill stuff long-term 10 scourges, 4 Haywire Blasters or 4 Splinter Cannon (same points, can be switched dependant on facing a horde / nids etc, or mechy force)
Haywire Blaster gives them an effective range of 36" to shoot, and a chance of 2 glances a shot. 4 shots will put a vehicle out if not down every given turn.
Scorchedangel767 wrote:
Heavy Support Cronos Parasite Engine (100pts) Spirit Vortex
Cronos is fun, but I would personally be switching it to a Talos as there is very little good it can do in this list, apart from give the talos and maybe the wyches a pain token, assuming it can keep up with them, and it's much easier and better to get the wyches a token with a Haem.
Being this is footslogging it up the field, I'd be giving it a Haywire Blaster.
Infact, TBH, I'd almost always be giving a Talos either a Splinter Cannon or a Haywire Blaster.
The best thing to do is decide on a role for each unit and streamline it to that.
I.E. this is anti tank, that is anti-infantry etc.
You also want to get some Haemonculi in there.
Switching it to 1 Venom of Incubi + 2 Venoms with something else (maybe wyches or warriors w/ a blaster) will give you a ton of poison shots a turn.
Giving the list a Ravager or a Razorwing, aswell as another 2 raiders will give you some much needed darklight goodness, though I realise vehicles make it pricier.
Vehicles want Flickerfields always, and if you have the points to spare, Night Shields. I personally fit them in when I can as they tend to be really helpful in close (reduces rapid fire range, which when you're AV10 means something and melta) or hovering at distance as a gunboat.
Otherwise, just practice and have fun with it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/05 09:35:56
Ok I would start by dropping him altogether for a haemy. Haemonclui give your wyches FNP to start every game. That lets them survive if they go down early. Archon's are just another nasty CC guy. If you have your heart set on him then drop the blaster, Ghostplate, and huskblade and add a PGL and Agoniser. Then attach to the Incubi (we'll critique them in a minute). I say drop the ghostplate since anything in CC that targers him will be a PF or relic blade, and he will be shot at with stuff like autocannons/assault cannons and other things that will ID him. You could in theory keep the blaster to make a 5 man squad of blaster born but that's an expensive 5th blasterborn so I'd say no.
Woah easy on the upgrades. Drop the Klaivex (and both upgrades) and your done on the incubi. On the venom drop the chain-snares, trophies, and NS. DE thrive on MSU which works best with cheap units. If you do go with the archon then you will need to turn the venom into a Raider w/ a FF.
Wow. Raider spam is pretty much dead now. So drop the warriors to 5 guys and turn the shredder into a blaster (bit should be in the same box). Shredders lack of an AP makes it bad as opposed to the blaster. The raider is way over kitted. Go with a venom instead with just an extra SC.
Sybarite is a no as warriors in CC just results with dead warriors.. Go with 5 instead. They have to have a transport so give them a venom w/ extra SC. 7 guys or 5 won't live on foot long.
Ok so too many wyches. Go with 9, keep the hekatrix and agoniser (loose the B.Pistol as it is way to expensive for what it does) and add in some haywires. Again wyches with no transport = dead wyches.
Two questions. 1) Why 4? It doesn't give any advantage as you break at the same number and can't rally at the same number. Drop one (make it the champ. That should give you alot back to work with.
1. Drop the solarite. He's way to pricey, scourges should never be in CC and that B.Pistol is sooo expensive.
2. Drop the guys to 5 and go with either all heat lances or all blasters.
Scorchedangel767 wrote:
Heavy Support Cronos Parasite Engine (100pts) Spirit Vortex
Ok you spend and spend but don't take the probe? So many times my opponents don't attack it because the name is funny, but it adds a valuable effect. Either way I'd drop it for a Ravager w/ 3 DL and FF.
So kitted out ok, but I would still drop him for a Ravager like above.
Now with all that said. I would drop your FA until you max out the troops. 3 Troops won't live in a 1500 pt game let alone a 2K as DE are so fragile and in 2/3 of your games will be objective based. Then I would max out HS with Ravagers, followed by blasterborn in the Elites (the incubi are ok), before going back to the Fast Attack area.
d3m01iti0n wrote:
BT uses the Codex Astartes as toilet paper. They’re an Imp Fist successor, recruit from multiple planets, and are known to be the largest Chapter in the galaxy. They’re on a constant Crusade, keeping it real for the Emperor and not bumming around like the other guys. They hate psykers and can’t ally with them. They’re basically an entire chapter of Chaplains. CC lunatics. What every Space Marine should aspire to be, if not trapped in a Matt Ward nightmare.
= 
= 
= 4500 pts 
