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What sort of rules do you guys have concerning building an alternative model for a named character in any system?

Recently there have been some disputes surrounding this subject, and I would like to see what you guys think, and try to apply this to our gaming club!!

I dont mind. Its a counts as figure, and noone i play ever have a bone to pick with me because of it.

I'm cool with that as long as the model has the right wargear and is the right size

^What he said.

I have a couple of characters in my SM army, even though they do not use the actual sculpts (mainly because I think the actual sculpts are pretty ugly - even for GW). They still have representative wargear and look the part.

Never had any issues. Also never come up against any "so-anal-retentive-they-were-toilet-trained-at-gunpoint" opponents, either.

ironhandstraken wrote:I'm cool with that as long as the model has the right wargear and is the right size

Yeah I don't think I've ever come across anyone who wouldn't be

Yup, as long as my opponents explains what is what, and who is who I am cool with it...keep in mind though, for GW sanctioned events you cant even have resin bases, as far as I know everything must be a GW product.

Ashton

A friend of mine seems to have a real problem with one of us building an alternative version of Greasus Goldtooth, and is determined not to let it go!

Someone told me there is actually a rule that allows the use of alternative models for named characters, is this true? and if so, could I have a page reference?

Does it not say that your allowed to use an alternative model for a named character in 40k as long as it has the same wargear and is characterful, or is that just in the case of the Guard codex? Its in the universal rules before the individual unit rules sections I think.

I know there is something about it in the 40k side, but was wondering if there is anything in Fantasy books, because we need to find some way of persuading this guy!!

But thanks anyway!

Uh... You can use any miniature you want to represent something as long as there's some sort of logic (however insane). =P

you should try telling him that but thanks anyway!!

I play with regular farseers as eldrad all the time. Nobody minds as long as the equipment looks right and he stands out a little.

If GW has the stance in one of its games (and have had it unofficially for years too), then I'd assume that its the same its others. If someone can't understand this then they're being just a tad close minded.

I think its acceptable as long as its idefifiable enough to say, yep i belive it, i have a custom model for Kharn made out of bits. I call him Kornack Headhundter, becuase he has sevral trophies on his back pack, he has a plasma pistol and a large two headed chainaxe that countas as Gorechild and every time he swings it, there a chance the swing goes wide and hits on of my owne guys, in fact im making a custome Arhiman with the sorcere's staff and head from the termi lord kit, some extra bits, and some procreate to give him robes.

Within reason there shouldn't be an issue. Provided the model is roughly the same size and shape as the GW model and mounted on the same sized base. In my goup I've subbed in Star Wars minis when needed to either cover a special character or something else I just didn't have/couln't find the model for.

The "You must use GW models" comes from GW and is applied to a lot of GW owned/operated locations because.... they want you to buy things from them. No real suprise there, just business.

A lot of shops will even make reasonable allowances for modders and convertors (usually something like the model must be 75% GW) to allow for the hobby portion and things like headswaps and such.

Even so, GW can't keep a lid on it's own people. I'm having trouble finding the specific links now, but GW has actually featured stuff from other companies on the GW website (of course without credit to the compentition). My favorite being an Army with Chaperhouse shoulderpads featured on the GW site.

I agree. I'd play versus an army of paper-printouts, as long as I could enjoy the game, ya know? Then again, I'm very forgiving.

Long as the alternative's are the right size, and stand out far enough that you know it's a special.

If the guy is that anal-retentive that he won't play you if you use an alternative model to a GW product, just tell him he won't play you because you'll wipe the floor with him

Nothing like a little competitive spirit...

The problem comes when he says he will destroy the models if we try to use them!! xD I'm sure we'll come to some agreement, if not I don't think he'll be invited very often!!

If there was some jerk threatening to destroy other players' models, he would never play in our club. A person like that doesn't have the right to ruin the fun for others. He is only going to scare away all the fun players. No one wants to hang out around a bully. If he can't go along with the decision of the majority, he can go suck an egg. That's just my opinion.

NathanD298 wrote:you should try telling him that but thanks anyway!!

I have a couple of things I would tell him, but neither of them can be posted on dakka...

Why are you wasting time playing this tool?

Tell him no thanks and move on. Life is too short to put up with stupidity like this.

A Kvlt Ghost wrote:

ironhandstraken wrote:I'm cool with that as long as the model has the right wargear and is the right size

Yeah I don't think I've ever come across anyone who wouldn't be

If i met someone who wasn't, I wouldn't want to play them again!

NathanD298 wrote:The problem comes when he says he will destroy the models if we try to use them!! xD I'm sure we'll come to some agreement, if not I don't think he'll be invited very often!!

Why do you play with him? Srsly...

There's home made units that look as good as any GW product. Modding and even made from scratch is part of the game. Hell, I was even thinking of making a Stompa out of a Tecate can and erecter set pieces. X3

Play him, if he touches any of your models in an innapropriate way, get with the other guys and remove him from the game, physically if need be.

As long as the model doesn't somehow give you an unfair advantage (IE: wrong size) he shouldn't complain.

If you INVITE a guy like this to play with you then you deserve whatever happens.

Seriously tell him to feth off and be done with him.

Well he is a good friend, but for some reason he is being completely unreasonable, none of us want him there whilst he is acting like this, but the original purpose of this thread was to try and find some arguments to persuade him to get over it.

But yes, we won't be letting him come if he doesn't back down anyway!!

Guy's got some problems, its just a stupid game man. As I said it is in the official rules for 40k (and probably Warhammer too, I just haven't got any of the army books) and hell if you look at the armies on parade that GW displays from time to time you can see that there's plenty of proxying going on (even just go into one of there shops). The game wouldn't be what it is if people didn't make up their own fluff and convert their miniatures. If he doesn't want to do it personally then that's his decision, don't allow him to belittle you for choosing to do so though or he's just rude (*the best safe for work term that I'll use here). =P

If my group didn't allow "counts as" then 1/3 of my buddy's 'Nids would be unplayable.

If you are looking for some arguments, just print all these responses out. Everyone here seems to be in agreement that your friend is being 'unreasonable' (to use a term that is appropriate for this setting).

I run a counts-as-Draigo conversion in my Grey Knights army (the official Draigo model is hideous), and I've never ran into any complaints. Even ran him at a tournament, and won best painted for it.

NathanD298 wrote:The problem comes when he says he will destroy the models if we try to use them!! xD I'm sure we'll come to some agreement, if not I don't think he'll be invited very often!!

OK serious question here - are you guys adults or teenagers? If someone threatened to do that to my models he'd be asked politely to leave, and if someone actually did something like that, he'd and up with something broken of his own. And not one of his models. Don;t bother to play this guy/kick him out of the group/refuse to play against him.

If you're keen you could go through GW"s site looking for their featured armies and print out a number of photos of converted commanders and special characters from both games.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Fafnir wrote:I run a counts-as-Draigo conversion in my Grey Knights army (the official Draigo model is hideous), and I've never ran into any complaints. Even ran him at a tournament, and won best painted for it.

Pics!

scipio.au wrote:

Fafnir wrote:I run a counts-as-Draigo conversion in my Grey Knights army (the official Draigo model is hideous), and I've never ran into any complaints. Even ran him at a tournament, and won best painted for it.

Pics!

(click for larger image)

Fafnir,
That is outstanding! Excellent work. I would be more than pleased to have that Draigo leading his GK across the table.