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Ok no doubt this has been covered, but i could not find the answer in regards to this question so here goes!

Now would a squad of 30 ork boyz (29 shoota boyz + 1 Nob with PK & BP) qualify as a complex unit?
I ask cause for the longest time my fellow gamerz & I have always played, that if this squad were to take say 6 wounds, id allowcate em to 6 of the boyz and that would be the end of it!
Now we have a new gamer with us (whom plays templars) and when he shot up my orkz he said that the nob must be allowcated one of those wounds because of having "a different profile" and then the rest dispersed among the boyz!

Now i've gone through the rule book and read up on complex units but the example in there is a 5 man squad taking 11 wounds (so naturally they're all gonna take wounds).

With everything i've personally played, read up on, and the BatReps i've watched online, i've always found that the Nob can indeed survive as the last man while the boyz die all around him and is not allowcated wounds each time the squad takes a hit (unless that the sqaud is small enough that he must be included, or that my foe has something to single him out!)

Have i been right all along or is my templar friend correct!
I hope you get what im trying to say here and thank you all in advance with this!

Skarshak wrote:Ok no doubt this has been covered, but i could not find the answer in regards to this question so here goes!

Now would a squad of 30 ork boyz (29 shoota boyz + 1 Nob with PK & BP) qualify as a complex unit?

Yes.

I ask cause for the longest time my fellow gamerz & I have always played, that if this squad were to take say 6 wounds, id allowcate em to 6 of the boyz and that would be the end of it!
Now we have a new gamer with us (whom plays templars) and when he shot up my orkz he said that the nob must be allowcated one of those wounds because of having "a different profile" and then the rest dispersed among the boyz!

That's not how complex units work. You can still allocate the wounds however you want following the normal rules. IE, if you don't allocate a wound to the Nob, then he can't be hurt.

With everything i've personally played, read up on, and the BatReps i've watched online, i've always found that the Nob can indeed survive as the last man while the boyz die all around him and is not allowcated wounds each time the squad takes a hit (unless that the sqaud is small enough that he must be included, or that my foe has something to single him out!)

Yup! Unless forced to because of taking that many wounds or if you choose to allocate a wound to him (maybe to keep on boy from dying for some reason) nothing requires a wound to be allocated to him.

I think every "group" must have a wound, so the Nob would take one, as he is different then the Boyz.

forruner_mercy wrote:I think every "group" must have a wound, so the Nob would take one, as he is different then the Boyz.

Wrong. Every model must take a wound before any model can take a second, but there is no requirement for each group to take a wound.

EDIT: I got it, was just confused

forruner_mercy wrote:But the Nob still gets a wound anyway, right?

How many wounds did the unit take? Unless they took 30+, there's no requirement for any given model in a 30 man unit to be assigned a wound regardless of wound group.

As above.

With 29 boyz and a Nob, you'd need to take 30 wounds before you were forced to put one on the Nob.

Chrysis wrote:How many wounds did the unit take? Unless they took 30+, there's no requirement for any given model in a 30 man unit to be assigned a wound regardless of wound group.

Actually you do assign wounds even if you ocly take one wound. There's simply not enough wounds to carry over to another group.

"for any given model"

There's no requirement to allocate one to the nob, or to that particular shooter boy. You just have to allocate them to someone without doubling up.

Where did I say that you apply the wounds to specific models? I didn't. You assign them to groups but they're still 'assigned'.

Ghaz wrote:Where did I say that you apply the wounds to specific models? I didn't. You assign them to groups but they're still 'assigned'.

No, you didn't. I did. Because you do assign them to models. You don't assign them to groups.

You assign each wound to be saved to a model, then group all wounds on identical models and roll the saves for them.

Only special rules on certain named characters allow you to allocate the wounds against specific models, and some rules do the same (death or glory, tau flechette launchers, mind war, ect)

Unless one of these special rules is the case, you assign wounds and then roll the wounds for like models at the same time.

Example: Your boys mob takes 20 wounds. You put them on 20 boyz, meaning you then roll 20 dice for their saves, removing any like models equal to how many failed.

If you took 2 wounds, and placed one on the nob and one on a boy, you roll each save separately, declaring what you are rolling for before rolling.

Chrysis wrote:

Ghaz wrote:Where did I say that you apply the wounds to specific models? I didn't. You assign them to groups but they're still 'assigned'.

No, you didn't. I did. Because you do assign them to models. You don't assign them to groups.

You assign each wound to be saved to a model, then group all wounds on identical models and roll the saves for them.

Well, I think you are saying the exact same thing backwards. Whether you assign to a model and then group like models before rolling is the same as grouping the models into like groups and then assigning to each group. You get the same result.

Green is Best! wrote:Whether you assign to a model and then group like models before rolling is the same as grouping the models into like groups and then assigning to each group. You get the same result.

Not true. Lets say I have a group of 2 SM (Bob and Sam) and a sergeant (Dave). I take 2 wounds. I can allocate the wounds as follows
1 to Bob, 1 to Sam
1 to Bob (or Sam), 1 to Dave

If I put them both on Bob and Sam, they roll their saves together. If I group first and assign to groups instead of models, Dave HAS to get one before I could assign a 2nd wound to Bob and Sam. So as you see you do not get the same result.