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Hi all, so trying to get back into the hobby and have put together a mountain of lists, even played a couple, it did not end well. Part of this is probably from having played a total of about 10 games in 4th and less in 5th. But the other part is no doubt from horrible army composition. So without further adieu here is the list, all feedback welcome.

HQ
Chapter Master
Melta bombs
130

Troops
4x
5 man tactical squad
combi-melta
Razorback - twin-linked assault cannon
175
=700

Elites
5 man sternguard
+5 combi-meltas
Razorback - twin-linked assault cannon
225

Heavy Support
2x
Predator
Twin-linked lascannon
lascannon sponsons
165
=330

Vindicator
115

Total = 1500

Once again any and all feedback is welcome.

Okay, I'm no marine expert, but here goes.

The Chapter Master is a poor choice for the points. 25 points for a single shot pie plate. A captain with a relic blade is better, but you usually get the best bang for your buck with a librarian.

Why combi-meltas on the tac squads, why not a single meltagun?

I don't like the TL-AC's on razorbacks, I like the lascannon and TL-plasmagun. One, you can hurt AV14. Two, you have two guns and aren't neutered by a single weapon destroyed result. Three, both weapons deny armor saves, and are great vs MEQ models.

The predators are overpriced. You don't need that setup if you're using lasorbacks. Throw on las sponsons or maybe the TL las + HB, but don't go all lascannon.....might as well go the extra 80 points for a LR at that time.

The sternguard look fine, other than the razorback.

Anyway, those are my comments. Hope it helps!

First off let me say welcome back to 40K! I quit for a while and got back into it roughly a year ago. I have a list very similar to this at 1000 points in the forms a few posts back, what I suggest is dropping the Twin Linked lascannons of the predators, this should save you a bunch of points, and 2 S7 shots aren't that bad. The Twin Lascannons are just to expensive to make them worth it. also I would consider dropping the chapter master. the only thing he gets over the regular captain is the orbital bombardment, and an honor gaurd. You aren't using the honor guard and the orbital bombardment is much better on paper. It can be great every so often, but 2/3s of the time it scatters 2 to 12 inches off target. A second vindicator is a much more solid choice. Not only is the vindicator cheaper, but it is a major fear unit. whenever I bring 2-3 vindicators they are number 1 on my opponents threat list, they are also able to deliver shots every turn and have a better chance to hit. HQ wise I would take a basic librarian with avenger and null zone. The problem with Chapter Masters and Captains is that they are close combat oriented and need close combat support. If you let them go off to kill a small squad on his own, he WILL get out killed. all someone has to do is shot a missile at him, and if he fails his 4+ invul he dies... all 130 points of him. also you get a psychic hod to throw off any psykers. having enemy psykers on the loose with no way to stop them is bad thing. I would suggest

Librarian
(Insert any to powers that you'd like)
100

7 Sternguard
1 Combi Melta

4x
5 man tactical squad
combi-melta
Razorback - twin-linked assault cannon
175
700

Landspeeder Squadron (3)
Multi-Meltas
180

Vindicator 115

Vindicator 115

Predator 120
1 Autocannon
2 Lascannons

Keep the sternguard in cover, The goal here was fear.

Fast Melta-weapons? Check.
High Strentgh Low AP large blasts? Check
Multiple melta weapons? Check
Psychic Defense? Check

Behind the vindicators and other scary things are the backbone of your army, the Razorbacks. Somes running a land raider? even your massed Assault cannons can take in down in a pinch, assuming you melta weapons didn't. Running footslogging terminators? combind it with null zone and you gimp the squad. or better yet lay down a vindicator blast to take them all out all the scary stuff keeps you razors alive. hope my long rant helped


Automatically Appended Next Post:
also check around with this list before using it if you like it, I might have created a horrid list, as i'm drowsy and don't play a lot.

RunningWithScissors touched on something that I forgot: Vindicators. They bring so much to the table for 115 points. Nothing like a few S10 AP2 pie plates to ruin someone's day. I fielded 2 in my last 1500 point list and they dominated.

Something to note: you can shoot S7 autocannon shots all day and never even glance AV14. That's one of the reasons I mentioned the las/plas. You'll never touch Land Raiders or Monoliths with autocannons. Or battlewagons and Leman Russ battle tanks from the front.

This is not too efficient way of putting out units.

You should not be scared of playing ten man tactical squads in razorbacks. I would struggle to find a good place for sternguard in a razorback army.
You should listen to above solid advice.

@Brother Taurinus: Chapter Master was initially a captain, had a space 30 points at the end which is where the chapter master came from. The librarian is pretty much ridiculously powerful for his points cost but so far I've been avoiding them due to a long term dislike of psykers in marine armies which goes back....I don't even know how many years but lets say about 10. Truth be told I may fold to the only competitive option though.

I'm not a fan of the Las/plas option, I think one of the most amazing things about the razorback is giving you twin-linked weapons, the las/plas takes this off of the more important weapon of the pair, the lascannon, and gives it to the plasma gun, personally that doesn't swim with me, I'd be more tempted to take the twin-linked lascannons across the board.

The combi-meltas are due to the inability to take meltaguns at less than 10 men.

The preds are expensive, normally I run dakka preds but there was a distinct lack of long range AV in my list so I did buy them up.

On your second comment, the laspreds will be dealing with a single AV14, if there is AV14 spam the assault cannons can be re purposed and in theory punch holes in big nasties, but at 1500 points it's not a likely match up, for front armour 14's I have less issues due to the three heavy hitting vehicles as well as the 5 assault cannons which can again punch through side armour.

@RunningWithScissors The Chapter Master issues I've detailed above, yeah looks like I need to go out and buy a librarian, 5000 points worth and I've never owned one, feels bad.

I'd normally agree with the lascannon issue but they are my long range AV, may look into losing them and leaving them with the autocannons.

@MFletch, the idea of the list is Razorspam, if I start taking 10 men squads I will be reducing the quantity of razorbacks I can field, primarily for the benefits of ML and a flamer, I find it just to expensive at 1500.

The sternguard are the primary source of melta in the list, as well as being a solid anti-meq once they've fired off the rounds.

Squiglet,

In all honesty, the las/plas turret is better, it's been proven to keep your vehicle with teeth longer then neutering it when it takes a single weapon destroyed result.

As for your pred's, the Autocannon with Lascannon side sponsons, it's the best bang for your buck. Gives you nice Anti-Infantry/Transport (light tanks) with the Autocannon and then AV14 punching power with the Lascannons.

As far as the HQ is concerned, the Libby is considered the most "competitive" choice. But that's really up to you and what fits your play style imo.

If you're looking at razorspam; and I know this might not be your cup of tea as you're playing vanilla but; Space Wolves do it much better and cheaper. At 1500 pts, I can field 8 Razorbacks with las/plas. Now like I said, it might not be what you want to do, but just tossing it into the suggestion pile, take it as you like. However, Space Wolves do get a meltagun in a 5 man squad over the required 10 man squad you need for Vanilla Marines.

Just my thoughts.

Cheers~

IMO, after you get above a 1000 pt game every SM army should have a Vindicator. I dont know what it is, but players crap their pants at the sight of that big, beautiful gun poking out of the seige sheild. Nobody flinches at a Pred. Plus you will definately make the 115 pts back after just one or two shots (assuming you hit).

Other than that, welcome back and good luck.

Ah see, I learn more about SM. Returned to 40k last year after a 19 year break. I had autocannons stuck in my head. Predators, riflemen, etc etc. They ARE assault cannons. Much better, but I still think the las/plas are better options, and only inferior against hordes.

Since it was mentioned, Blood Angels can field a las/plas razorback for 145 points, and could add a melta to the squad if desired.

I've been playing orks, but have just started vanila marines, determined to prove to a friend that they are competitive. One of the strengths, IMO, is that Vindicators are only 115 points. I honestly feel that you should field two, if possible. They demolish infantry and vehicles alike.

I just realised I must sound a bit of a prat for missing this out on the last post but: Thank you to everyone for the advice so far.

Now onto a reply with some stats, hopefully where I haven't made any calculation errors.

I realise that one weapon destroyed result will neuter the tanks, but it's less likely than a tank destroyed result, and if it does happen it just means that I will just drive them in front of the other vehicles to soak enemy fire.

Also prior to a weapon destroyed result I will be throwing more shots their way, killing more everything, including meq at greater than 12".

If all 5 razorbacks are shooting each turn they kill as below stats worked for T4 enemies.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,48",,,,,,,,,,24”,,,,,,,,,,,12”
Las/plas kills,,,,,,,,2.78,,,,,,,,6.48,,,,,,,,,7.41
Las/Plas MEQ,,,,,,2.78,,,,,,,,6.48,,,,,,,,,7.41
Assback kills,,,,,,,,0.00,,,,,,,14.81,,,,,,,14.81
Assback MEQ,,,,,,,0.00,,,,,,,,6.91,,,,,,,,,6.91

Assback allows me to move 6" away from the enemy and still fire to great effect, hopefully giving me and extra turn of shooting before he gets his CC guys into the midst of my army.

I have modified up the list again though from everyone's advice. Stripping out the twin linked lascannons and the chapter master, putting in instead a librarian and a 3 man biker squad with 2 meltaguns and 1 combi melta. I realise the speeders are probably a better option in the list but I have only one typhoon in my collection as opposed to the bikes which I can field with ease (The combi melta less so, but I'm currently working on a magnetising project which will result in all sort of options available to me.)

Anyway will be trying out the list tomorrow most likely, with a few proxies (I can field 3 razorbacks and only 2 with twin-linked AC models wise, but hey I have a pile of predators and rhinos which make great razorback proxies) So will update on how it went after that.

I do appreciate the space wolve codex is better at razorspam, but as you have probably guessed I'm a C:SM player all the way, been playing them since 2nd ed on and off and not so inclined to change. May end up buying a copy of their codex though just to see what's to be seen.

EDIT: Oh and on the note of multiple vindicators, 1 and least importantly at this stage of the list build, I only own the one vindy. 2 and much more importantly, the preds are pretty much my only long range weaponry. Razorbacks, Marines, Sternguard, bikes, vindy and librarian all sitting at 24" range.

So I took the list out for a spin against a chaos army running: 2 vindicators, 2 10 man marine squads in rhinos with extra armour, 10 khorne berserker's again in a rhino with extra armour, 5 bikes with a meltagun and a demon of some variety.

Truth be told the table was a bit terrain heavy which I think but me at a bit of a disadvantage, followed by the further disadvantages of spearhead and annihilation being the worst game type for this list (lots of kill points) and spearhead denying me a nice gun line set up. All that said I didn't play great (the main reason for my defeat). First two turns involved not a lot of shooting and ended with my opponent removing one of my razorbacks, from that point on I was pretty much stuck amidst the cover at the centre of the board and with a combination of bad rolls on my part and better strategic moves on theirs my tanks started getting cleaned up, ending with me having having destroyed considerably less than them at the end of the match.

Still fun and I do plan on trying the list a couple more times before making more changes, the least effective unit was probably the bikes in this game, but part of that was again my poor placement and not getting them into the midst of the enemy tanks where their meltaguns could come to the fore.