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Basic question from a beginner, around how many warjacks can a warcaster handle before you need to add support to controll the jacks. Same question for hordes but with beasts to warlocks. I understand that some casters have abilities to control focus/fury better but I was looking for a ballpark starting number.

A good rule of thumb for hordes is the added Fury stat of all beasts = 1.5 times the Fury stat of the warlock. So a Fury 6 Warlock would field beasts with a combined 9 Fury

For Warmachine its not that easy and there is no clear rule of thumb, since its mostly caster dependant. Some casters are very " jack friendly" while others are very greedy with focus and will keep it for themself to cast spells.
I would say that most casters are able to handle 1 heavy jack quite well, but thats the only thing i could that works pretty much for all casters

In Warmachine, I normally see a single heavy, or if its an arc node, a single light, for most casters. Lots of casters will take maybe two warjacks, but that's about the top until you get into warjack-dedicated warcasters. The Protectorate is a bit of an exception, as with the Choir and the Avatar they can easily run two heavies with little headaches.

For Hordes, I think its Faction dependent. Without support, the 1.5 number is a good ratio though. With support, Skorne and Legion can easily get warlock's FURY*2, though, since they have access to things like Paingivers, the Forsaken, and Shepards. Circle and Trollbloods do a bit more combined-arms due to not having as good of mangagement.

And stuff.

The rule of thumb is one melee warjack per every 3 available focus on a caster, and one ranged warjack for every 2 available focus. This allows you to function at 'full burn' for a round if need be, using your warjack at its maximum capacity.

Remember, 'available' is minus any focus that you need to upkeep necessary spells, so pKreoss for instance could run 1 or 2 melee heavies (probably 1 due to the next point) or two or three Vanquishers while still upkeeping Defenders Ward. pStryker generally wants 1 good heavy while keeping his upkeeps going, and marshals other jacks to his support (ATGM or Jr.).

RuneGrey wrote: pStryker generally wants 1 good heavy while keeping his upkeeps going, and marshals other jacks to his support (ATGM or Jr.).

I've had some decent experiences with pStryker running a Charger and a Lancer. Granted, I tend to use the Lancer largely for its node and tend not to give it much in the way of focus. Aside from that differing bit of experience, I've definitely got to agree on your proposed rule of thumb.

In most games above 25 points I bring caster (5-8) plus 8 in fury management solos

For Hordes, you have to bring back up batteries for your caster.

Frankly, it's almost impossible to apply hard and fast rules like this to all armies, let alone all casters or locks. Models like eKaya, Mortenebra, eMakeda or Absylonia will all run more beasts/jacks than any guideline I've seen posted so far would tell you they should. Conversely, people like eCaine or Fiona the Black will probably run as little as they can while still using up their jack points wisely, and that's it.

The only thing I can definitively say is that warjacks use focus as fuel to achieve goals, whereas beasts are a source of it to fuel your caster. As such, you will typically see more beasts than you would jacks, because losing warjacks isn't nearly as deleterious to their owner as the loss of beasts is. This notion also does not, of course, take into account alternative sources of focus generation/fury management (jack marshals, power boosting solos, beast handlers, wilders, forsaken, efficiency-altering buffs of which there are dozens, etc.)

I just honestly don't think there's a universal answer. It's like asking "how do I defeat X unit/caster/combo"; the answer depends entirely on what you've got to work with in terms of faction, caster choice, and support.

Well, I'm not sure about hordes, but in warmachine, I generally run a minimum of 2 warjacks with my caster. Now for Protectorate, I usually run 3, and If I use Amon Ad-Raza, I run 6 at a minimum.

Depends which army you play, for kahdor 2 or 3
anything else 3 or 4

the higher the focus, more warjacks you can control

Defensenator is right on the money; it is completely dependant on the caster. General rules don't work, and even these rules such as posted above for specific factions don't work. Cygnar for example; as I understand it Nemo likes a lot of jacks but Caine doesn't (as he likes to hog focus for himself).

For Warmachine, it depends on the caster and the warjack. I play Menoth, so I will speak from my experience with them. With pSevy, I tend to not allocate much focus in order to upkeep eye, defenders ward, and to arc ashes to ashes if need be. With a hierophant, I end up with 3 focus left after that, leaving me 1 to run an arc node forward and 2 to allocate for a heavy jack. So I usually run 1 arc node 1 heavy and Avatar. Also, solos such as Reclaimers that can power jacks are also great.

It's your preference, but jacks will be focus hogs on the turn that they charge.

or if you play khador and taking karachev he can be used with loads of jacks, well he is kind of a jack himself