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... hold onto your hats people !

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2120187a_Sisters_of_Battle_FAQ_Version_1_0_December_2011.pdf_

and for the work blocked/case it disappears

EDIT :

On the WFB side, looks like the TK FAQ has been updated too.... yes.. ?

EDIT :
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=1000018&pIndex=1&aId=3000006&multiPageMode=true&start=2

Ogres new too yes ? And skaven updates too ?

that took a long time to read... not?

2 unit changes only?? (and clarification on multiple Acts of Faith)..

Well that's interesting last updated Jan_2011 they sat on it for a while

Cannot be attempted more than once? Sucks.

FAQ for SoB pretty much says what we expected all along. No great revelations, but at least now I won't have to hear "No, it's totally intentional so we don't suck!" anymore.

Any thoughts from the fantasy players? I'm running out the door...

RiTides wrote:Any thoughts from the fantasy players? I'm running out the door...

I for one, am finally glad we can put this to rest! Though this was apparently from Nov 30th so guess I'm a bit slow

Q: As Butchers and Slaughtermasters can take an ironfist, does this
mean that they can also wear magical armour? (p32)
A: Yes.

Yep, good ruling.

Same for Warpstone Tokens counting as power dice, essentially

Celestine's an IC now? That's good, at least.

Hmm. Retributors just got worse and St Celestine just got better. Interesting.

New to me were Tomb Kings, Skaven, Ogres, and Orcs & Goblins.

O&G: A couple questions I'd never thought to ask about. Also some fanatic/mangler movement answers that seem familiar but are still highlighted?

Ogres: Kenshin pointed out the big one. Another handy one is ironblasters being more or less defined as war machines (no stand & shoot, ironcurse icon works against them).

Skaven: Cracks Call *is* a template! Clarification on some of the goofier bell rules. WLC shots aren't stopped by monstrous infantry/cav/beasts. A weird ruling about how to place & fire the warpfire template.

Tomb Kings: Clarifications on how character ridden chariots interact with certain rules. No ironcurse against Light of Death. Chariots break steadfast and disrupt with ranks of three (some of these might be old news- I had 1.0 on my machine, and this TK FAQ is 1.2)

I think that's it for notables. There's other bits and pieces, so still worth a browse.

Edit: Ah, good point Nos- forgot the warpstone token debate.

And just for all of you that think that I am a complete apologist and have never said anything bad about SoB's new codex, this is a substantial nerf to faith and largely makes faith completely useless.

Now that doesn't really hurt the army since faith has been less and less important since the WD codex came out, but the 'keep rolling until you got it' was a cool mechanic.

I am disappointed.

Hmm...so still no clarification on Tomb Princes with Fencers Blades conferring their WS on their unit?

Alright! Slaughtermaster with armor! I could have seen them ruling the other way, but still, to all those naysayers : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIA1_I9t4yg

The Greedy fist ruling is a bit unexpected.

I expected them to nerf the acts of faith, but it's a damn shame they actually made it happen. I know a few people that are going to be extremely frustrated when they hear of this.

They made Celestine even better. Was being 100 points under-costed not enough? Could they not admit to the typo? I think I would despise playing against the SoBs because of that one model. Thankfully I've never seen an SoB army before, so my rage is in check.

ShumaGorath wrote:They made Celestine even better. Was being 100 points under-costed not enough? Could they not admit to the typo? I think I would despise playing against the SoBs because of that one model. Thankfully I've never seen an SoB army before, so my rage is in check.

What typo? They did admit to the typo for StC. Unless you're trying to say the points cost is the typo... If that one model is really going to ruin the game for you, you might have larger problems.

pretre wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:They made Celestine even better. Was being 100 points under-costed not enough? Could they not admit to the typo? I think I would despise playing against the SoBs because of that one model. Thankfully I've never seen an SoB army before, so my rage is in check.

What typo? They did admit to the typo for StC. Unless you're trying to say the points cost is the typo... If that one model is really going to ruin the game for you, you might have larger problems.

At 1500 or below Celestine is an unstoppable wrecking ball and is likely the most undercosted unit games workshop has produced in the last several additions. I don't play gray knights. I can't just whisk all my problems away with magic bs. She'd wreck my standard codex marines like theres no tomorrow. And yes, I believe that her cost is a typo. A 1 should be a two.

ShumaGorath wrote:At 1500 or below Celestine is an unstoppable wrecking ball and is likely the most undercosted unit games workshop has produced in the last several additions. I don't play gray knights. I can't just whisk all my problems away with magic bs. She'd wreck my standard codex marines like theres no tomorrow.

I think you misunderstand how Celestine actually functions in a real game.

She charges a marine unit. 6 Attacks, 4 Hit against WS 4. She kills 2 guys. You make your morale and she chills. She does this round after round, potentially getting lucky, or potentially taking a PF to the face. If she wins (or dies) she gets back up and charges something else. She is not a wrecking ball. She is an annoying scalpel that keeps jabbing into you and cannot be removed. Most importantly, she makes you irrational and distracts you from the rest of my army which is wrecking your standard codex marines like theres no tomorrow.

She is much more hilarious against GK or other high cost armies since she swings before them, kills a couple of their expensive minis and then dies, only to get up the following turn and do the same thing again and again. It costs them much more every time she kills a couple guys.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and if she was 215, she wouldn't be taken. Although if you give her Eternal Warrior, I'd let you go to 215.

I think right now she is at a pretty good place points wise. She helps balance the rest of the codex.

Yay on the Ogre Kingdoms stuff!!!


But I'm horribly disappointed in the Sister of Battle faith nerf...

So other armies get massive army wide rules (ATSKNF, stubborn/combat tactics/etc) and sisters get a 6+ invul save...and a faith system that was almost useless before this... yay.

*sigh* And I'll still play the army... but now I will field St Celestine to make up for the other deficiencies in the army...

Short read on SoB FAQ. I was hoping at least for a couple amendments that would make them suck less. Glad they cleared up Saint Celestine's status.

Noticed they haven't changed WD August 2011 mislabled image of "Retributor with Heavy Bolter" when in fact she's holding a Multimelta. Perhaps it will confuse the heck out opponents with WYSIWYG.

I think you misunderstand how Celestine actually functions in a real game.

No. Not really.

She charges a marine unit. 6 Attacks, 4 Hit against WS 4. She kills 2 guys.

Heavy flamer hits 5-6 and kills 2 before that. She charges, kills 2 with average rolls, PF likely fails its 33% chance to down her. Next round she kills two more. She either gets splatted or uses hit and run. Next round she uses the flamer and charges again, the squad has two models left and shes payed for herself 50% over.

She has on average two more chances to 2-round kill full squads.

She is not a wrecking ball. She is an annoying scalpel that keeps jabbing into you and cannot be removed.

Thats... Wrong. A character with a heavy flamer and that many poisoned power weapon attacks is a killing machine. She does more damage on average per turn than lysander.

Most importantly, she makes you irrational and distracts you from the rest of my army which is wrecking your standard codex marines like theres no tomorrow.

Imagine if Kayvan shrike costed less then a marine captain with nothing but a power weapon. Imagine that he couldn't die. Give him a heavy flamer. You now have celestine. You can't possibly tell me that's not broken.

She is much more hilarious against GK or other high cost armies since she swings before them, kills a couple of their expensive minis and then dies, only to get up the following turn and do the same thing again and again. It costs them much more every time she kills a couple guys.

Then why isn't she severely undercosted?

Oh, and if she was 215, she wouldn't be taken. Although if you give her Eternal Warrior, I'd let you go to 215.

I don't think you understand the dynamics of this game very well.

ShumaGorath wrote:I don't think you understand the dynamics of this game very well.

Woah, slow down killer! No need to jump to personal attacks, we're having a difference of opinion on toy soldiers.

You have your opinion about the model, so go ahead and keep it. I will just say that my opinion is based on empirical facts gained from playing games for and against her. It is apparent that yours is based on theorycrafting. Take that as you will.

ShumaGorath wrote: *snippet from previous post*

Personally, even as a sister of battle player, I think she is underpointed. I think she should be in the 185 range, personally... But that is if we look at a single model in the vacuum of model vs. point cost.

Now if you toss her in with the rest of my army and compare it to the horrible horrible train wreck my SoB codex is, I think we're allowed 1 item to ATTEMPT to make up for the stupidity that was thrust upon us... as a whole, this codex sucks, but the one bright gleaming hope it has, is named St. Celestine, and my opponents will at least respect HER if they can't respect my Sisters of Battle.

Revarien wrote:Personally, even as a sister of battle player, I think she is underpointed. I think she should be in the 185 range, personally... But that is if we look at a single model in the vacuum of model vs. point cost.

Which, as we know, models in armies are not generally costed in a vacuum. One of the many reasons I think she is at the right points cost.

I also disagree that the codex is a trainwreck, but oh well. I think we're still in a good place, even post FAQ.

Revarien wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote: *snippet from previous post*

Personally, even as a sister of battle player, I think she is underpointed. I think she should be in the 185 range, personally... But that is if we look at a single model in the vacuum of model vs. point cost.

Now if you toss her in with the rest of my army and compare it to the horrible horrible train wreck my SoB codex is, I think we're allowed 1 item to ATTEMPT to make up for the stupidity that was thrust upon us... as a whole, this codex sucks, but the one bright gleaming hope it has, is named St. Celestine, and my opponents will at least respect HER if they can't respect my Sisters of Battle.

I don't think one awful design decision really makes up for the other, especially considering how much of the HQ slot is invalidated by celestines existence.

On the Fantasy side: Also notable that the Greedy Fist apparently works at range. So the first time a boosted Caress of Laniph pops off, you're probably stripping all the magic levels off your target.

pretre wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:I don't think you understand the dynamics of this game very well.

Woah, slow down killer! No need to jump to personal attacks, we're having a difference of opinion on toy soldiers.

You have your opinion about the model, so go ahead and keep it. I will just say that my opinion is based on empirical facts gained from playing games for and against her. It is apparent that yours is based on theorycrafting. Take that as you will.

You directly described a situation wherein she pays for herself consistently and well without the use of clever tactics or skill. A unit should not be a no brainer breadwinner with no realistic counters, thats flawed design. Something that book/pages possessed a lot of.

ShumaGorath wrote:You directly described a situation wherein she pays for herself consistently and well without the use of clever tactics or skill. A unit should not be a no brainer breadwinner with no realistic counters, thats flawed design. Something that book possessed a lot of.

Chuckle @ 'well without the use of clever tactics or skill. '

Charge her with a large stubborn, fearless or resilient unit. I.e. a squad of gaunts, ork boys or IG blob. Laugh as she is stuck in combat for the next 3 hours.

Again, play some games with her and see how it actually works. Much like the rest of the codex, it behaves differently than the interwebs thinks it does.

pretre wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:You directly described a situation wherein she pays for herself consistently and well without the use of clever tactics or skill. A unit should not be a no brainer breadwinner with no realistic counters, thats flawed design. Something that book possessed a lot of.

Chuckle @ 'well without the use of clever tactics or skill. '

Charge her with a large stubborn, fearless or resilient unit. I.e. a squad of gaunts, ork boys or IG blob. Laugh as she is stuck in combat for the next 3 hours.

Again, play some games with her and see how it actually works. Much like the rest of the codex, it behaves differently than the interwebs thinks it does.

You are aware of the fact that she has I7 and hit and run correct? She can't be tarpitted.