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A guy I follow on YT did a vid talking about 6th Ed. Chaos rumors. TBH, I'm not sure where he got the info as it sounded pretty different from the stuff Kroothawk has been re-posting here from Ghost21. One of the things he mentioned that sounded completely off was that Chaos Legions would have the ability to swap their FOC slots around: like trading a fast attack for a heavy, etc. I say this sounds off because (1) it doesn't make much sense to be generally and (2) how broken would it be if only one dex could do it? But that got me to thinking, what if there was edition-wide FOC-swapping? Maybe not straight "X for Y" but some kind of rules that would allow you to mess around with the structure a bit more.

What do you guys think? Needless complication? More tactical depth? Just another path to cookie-cutter builds?

Could definitely lead to problems.

Don't want to imagine fighting a SW list packing 6 longfang squads, or a guard list with 6 vendettas not in squadrons.

Yeah, those just for a start. I just can't see something like this happening unless it was actually a very narrow thing, like having a special character unlocking certain units for certain slots (as already exists). I was just wondering if people more creative than me could think of a way to open the FOC up without doing too much damage to the game.

Just thinking about the return of the Armored Company if this was true ^_^ I would definitely make a 100% Leman Russ tank squadron.

I doubt it. It's been tried before (3rd ed had some armies that would get an extra FA or HS slot at the cost of others) and wasn't very successful from what I remember.

It would lead to crazy shennanigans.
"Oh, but you see, my troops are Hammerheads.
And your HQ?
Hammerhead.
And your elites?
Hammerheads.
And your fast attack?
Hammerheads.
And your Heavy support?
Fire Warriors."

BlapBlapBlap wrote:It would lead to crazy shennanigans.
"Oh, but you see, my troops are Hammerheads.
And your HQ?
Hammerhead.
And your elites?
Hammerheads.
And your fast attack?
Hammerheads.
And your Heavy support?
Fire Warriors."

Wouldn't have been awesome without the Fire Warriors bit.

Some form of change to the FOC in 6th is definitely conceivable, the current one has been around for a long time and could definitely use a makeover. Either more flexibility in being able to swap slots around (swap 2 Fast slots for a Heavy slot etc) or some form of % based system like Fantasy. Either way I think you have to assume that they would add some form of anti spam system like they did with Fantasy, no more than 2-3 Duplicate units outside of Troops to stop the 6 Long Fang/6 Hydra/6 Vendetta type lists.

Well techinically we already have FOC swapping, just not named as such. Think about it - we have HQ's that can allow certain units to be taken in other slots. MotF letting dread be Heavy Support as well as Elites, or Crowe allowing Purifiers as Troops to name a couple. So I suppose for this Chaos Rumours guy he could mean some units can be taken in other slots, or have to be taken in said slots.

If there is a limit on Duplicate choices, then it wouldn't be so bad. Something like can't take more than 3 of any entry, regardless of FoC swapping.

It's something I like in theory but can be really, really abusive. It's like the old trait/doctrine systems that didn't quite work. I'm not going to give a damn if I can't take land speeder storms in my army if it means I get more TH/SS Terminators.

Only thing I can thnk of that could be plausible/ fair is to be able to change 0-2 troop choices into other type slots, at a limit of 1 extra slot per slot type.

Example: I give up 2 troop choices and I can take an extra elite and Fast attack, or Elite, and Heavy slot, but not 2 more elite slots.

Juvieus Kaine wrote:Well techinically we already have FOC swapping, just not named as such. Think about it - we have HQ's that can allow certain units to be taken in other slots. MotF letting dread be Heavy Support as well as Elites, or Crowe allowing Purifiers as Troops to name a couple. So I suppose for this Chaos Rumours guy he could mean some units can be taken in other slots, or have to be taken in said slots.

What he said. There's lots of stuff like this. Haemonculus making wracks troops for example.

Manchu wrote:... like having a special character unlocking certain units for certain slots (as already exists) ...

Covered that already.

it might be legion specific, maybe like iron warriors having one more heavy support and one less fast attack and world bearers the opposite of that. So every time you use a different FoC you would actually be using a different legion.

Space Wolves can take 4 hq choices i dont see why thousand sons wont have an extra elite slot.

Manchu wrote:

Manchu wrote:... like having a special character unlocking certain units for certain slots (as already exists) ...

Covered that already.

Then what did you have in mind that's different then that?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I know: I should be be ale to trade my FoC slots with my opponent. "I'll trade you my spare Heavy Support slot and 2 Troops choices for your 2 Elites spots."

People had a proble with it on my fandex. Sory GW, but I was here first...

if they find it acceptable in an official GW coedex, then they would have to find it acceptable in mine. So yay for FOC swaps.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:I should be be ale to trade my FoC slots with my opponent. "I'll trade you my spare Heavy Support slot and 2 Troops choices for your 2 Elites spots."

That would be interesting

But pretty much unworkable in a tournament.

Actually, I think it would be very workable. It would actually introduce either a variety of new armies, as armies that were usually hamstrung by limited troop-choices or dependent on a single unit-type that could be fielded only in small numbers could be made more competitive.... or the top-placers in any tournament is a variation on the same basic army list.

Which is really nothing new to what we see now.

It would make sense if it was a legion specific thing.

Like Iron Warriors get 4 Heavy Support and only 2 fast attack. Warsmiths are unlocked as an HQ choice.

Alpha Legion gets 4 Fast Attack, but only 2 Heavy Support and Chosen are a Troops choice.

Black Legion is normal. Abbaddon makes Black Legion Terminators Troops.

Death Guard get 5 Elites, but only 1 Fast Attack. the 2 extra slots can only be used for Death Guard terminators.

Psienesis wrote:Actually, I think it would be very workable. It would actually introduce either a variety of new armies, as armies that were usually hamstrung by limited troop-choices or dependent on a single unit-type that could be fielded only in small numbers could be made more competitive.... or the top-placers in any tournament is a variation on the same basic army list.

Which is really nothing new to what we see now.

I was referring to trading FoC slots with your opponent.

Did anyone say you would swap FoC with your opponent? That would basically make Tournaments impossable.

Swapping FOC slots is a hilarious idea that can't reliably be put into the game. It's something you can only do if you both build your lists after you meet, which cuts into game time when your game night has to be over by X o clock.

Anything that makes it harder to write lists ahead of time is an objectively bad thing. This particular one would make tournaments impossible, pick up games a chore, and even friendly games kind of annoying to organize.

Grey Templar wrote:Did anyone say you would swap FoC with your opponent? That would basically make Tournaments impossable.

Klogger wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:I should be be ale to trade my FoC slots with my opponent. "I'll trade you my spare Heavy Support slot and 2 Troops choices for your 2 Elites spots."

That would be interesting

Hence my comment. Reading all the posts in a thread is good.

Iron Warriors used to be able to do this in the 3.5ed Chaos Book. They could trade 2 FA slots for one HS slot. AND this was back when they could take Basilisks.

Oh the humanity.

Brother SRM wrote:This particular one would make tournaments impossible, pick up games a chore, and even friendly games kind of annoying to organize.

That's it, get me Jervis Johnson on the phone right away!

I personally have little doubt the FoCs will get a major overhaul in 6th. Whether its laid out as above, Im not sure but sales will drive it. Standard troop choices are a dime a dozen these days due to the mission scenario rules and most of them being decent ingame. No one when 6th is released is going to buy another unit of GHs/shoota Boyz or genestealers unless their stats and abilites change dramatically (which they wont imo since the codexes are already out and will simply be adapted to 6th) or they gain some new "ability". What that ability might be Im not sure.
They may introduce something like in KP games HQs or elites will give away 2 points, hence going down the troop only route would negate this (or something like that).
I can see many of the elite choices currently in codexs getting moved to troops to drive sales or more widespread options like the Mekboy where Deffdreads become troops etc.

I dont think allowing swapping of FoCs would make for cutter cookie builds however, perhaps the opposite.
Imagine if you could swap out your Boyz units for buggies/traks. You could create a true cult of speed army with a bucket load of bikes, traks and buggies with say Gretchin holding the backline on objectives.
Or switch out your elite choices for more heavies and create a Freebooter gunline army.
I think it would create a lot of very interesting options.
How viable and user friendly it is remains to be seen however but the FoC will get a big overhaul imho.

Haven't they been doing a pretty good job of making all the FOC slots better?

I mean, rather than everybody wishing they could take six heavy support choices, isn't it better to have good/useful/interesting fast attack choices?

The BA book is great at this: two kinds of dreads/predators in different slots. Even the vendetta (while possible OP) gives IG a great fast attack choice.

I would actually find it interesting if GW made the Force Org like Fantasy; each choice has a points ceiling that depends on the amount of points your playing, so that HQ, Elites, Fast Attack, and Heavy Supports are each 25% of your army while your troops can be 50%.