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With a rich fluffy background, tough primarch and tough tabletop units, I don't get why nobody likes them?!

Mate.

I fething love the Emperor's Children. So much so; I've been deviating from my beloved Eldar of Altansar to experimenting with a unit of regular Chaos Space Marines. If all goes well to plan, I may very well be putting more money into them and building up a mixed ForgeWorld/GW force to mark the post-heresy period of our beloved legion.

Eiríkr wrote:Mate.

I fething love the Emperor's Children. So much so; I've been deviating from my beloved Eldar of Altansar to experimenting with a unit of regular Chaos Space Marines. If all goes well to plan, I may very well be putting more money into them and building up a mixed ForgeWorld/GW force to mark the post-heresy period of our beloved legion.

Great to hear!
Their easily my favorite, for good reason. I've just been seeing a lot of hate towards them from other players. Maybe jealousy?

If the new chaos book is as good as some people are hyping it to be, I'd be all over a Slaanesh army. I have a small fleet of BFG chaos ships I have to paint up, and I'm thinking they're going to be purple, pink and gold. And covered in cocaine.

<3 Slaanesh

It's because everyone thinks of them as these crazy pink marines, playing music and having sex.

And they sort of lose their menace that way....


I think they could do with bit a lot more badass. Less bondage and boobs and more, "yeah our whole legion strives for perfection, so we're all deadshots, lightning fast and deadly in combat".

daBIGboss wrote:I don't get why nobody likes them?!

I'm sure that's a vast understatement, I've seen lots of fans for them. And when it comes to CSMs, the Emperor's Children are my favorites as well. Doesn't have to mean much, as CSMs aren't exactly my favorite army, but still.

I think that a segment of the playerbase may shun them because of the stigma propagated by society. Sex is bad, violence is cool - so people have no issue with Khornites hacking people apart, but throw a fit when they see an exposed breast - at least publicly, whilst still enjoying it in private. Hypocricy is strong in today's civilization, a result of the clash of personal interests versus one's reputation in the eyes of his supposedly morally clean peers who are in secret just as depraved as everyone else. Mankind needs to have a long session with a really good shrink.

On the other hand, there's also the "hurr durr boobies" factor that a lot of people may deem childish, appealing to adolescent kids rather than adult gamers ... in spite of the potential the background actually offers. It'd be easy to think of the ubermasculine, heroic and powerful (normal) Space Marines as being designed to target the very same audience, yet once again the difference is that violence is much more accepted and even applauded in our society.

Lastly, neither Slaanesh nor the Emperor's Children are all about sex, there's a lot of other aspects as well. Though I have to admit that I am equally put off by the number of people who want to play this down even below the other forms of slaaneshi activities (probably due to the aforementioned stigma), for I maintain that sexual ecstasy is still the strongest thrill of all, and as such has an appropriate place that simply should be recognized. Just not focused on as if it'd be the only thing Slaanesh cares about. As always, it's all about finding the balance.

Cause they don't like sex, drugs, and rock & roll.

Lynata wrote:Though I have to admit that I am equally put off by the number of people who want to play this down even below the other forms of slaaneshi activities

I find this quite odd!
Do you similarly dislike Khorne players who make an army based around martial prowess and honour rather than KILL, KILL, KILL. Or a nurgle army based on stubbornness and pragmatism rather than rotting?

I really think GW play down the multi-faceted aspects of their Chaos Gods, and they could be so much more interesting. People think Tzeentch and imagine an army of blue and yellow, lots of magic, lots of psykers. However, an imperial guard army lead by a general who fancies himself a tactical genius and wins through cunning plans and deception/carefully laid traps could just as easily fall to chaos. And then you'd have a tzeentch army filled with normal guardsmen, tanks and a few extra brainy commanders.

I like the fluff, but in game play terms i perfer a professional martial army. So the Imperial Guard appeals to me. I might do a Khorne army that focuses on the martial side, rather then the maim kill burn , MAIM!!!KILL!!!BURN!!! side

I havent seen much hate but I do see alot of 1 dimensionla stereotypes of chaos armies etc. I happen to like for csm Emperor's Children and Iron Warriors. The stereotypes is where the hates at but every army from sphess mahreens, orks, eldar etc all face them too.

Slaanesh I like, I'm just not a fan of pink marines. May just be me, but pink on power armour? Not too often pulled off well, and the Emperor's Children definitely don't pull it off. Otherwise they're okay in my book

I would have to say it's the pink. At least when I played them that was the majority of the comments I received.

I was sorely tempted this year to do a small Chaos army. It would have been Slaanesh. I resisted. My bank account thanks me.

2013 is my Chaos mantra. 2013...

When people say they don't like pink some very crude jokes come to mind..

Draigo wrote:When people say they don't like pink some very crude jokes come to mind..

You sir, just made my day

But I think it's just the pink...I personally love the pink, and Slaanesh is my 2nd favorite Chaos god......Khorne being just a tid bit higher

Idk, they just dont seem too "chaosy" to me. I mean Khorne, Nurgle, and Tzneetch seem to fit the mold better. Slaanesh just seems to like to have sex

lunarman wrote:I find this quite odd! Do you similarly dislike Khorne players who make an army based around martial prowess and honour rather than KILL, KILL, KILL. Or a nurgle army based on stubbornness and pragmatism rather than rotting?

I'd never dislike the player, but yes, I would think that he "missed the mark" concerning what makes Chaos ... Chaos.

Martial prowess and honour or stubbornness and pragmatism is how it may often start, but once you get to the point of fielding an army of berserkers and demons then you've quite simply passed that line. Denying the primary aspects of the Chaos Gods is a disservice to their fluff.
At least this is my interpretation, borne from the things I have read about Chaos so far.

Honestly, the demonette minis have always skeeved me out, but then we get Mr. Culexus making stuff like this:



Why did they ever take Doomrider out of the Codex?

I love the EC. If I was to play a Mono-god Chaos army it would be them. Why? Because sex is just the beginning. Slannesh is about sensation, perfection and pushing limits. Sex is sensation yes... but so is pain, extreme emotions and other forms of pleasure.
They turn pleasure into pain and vice versa, dedicate themselves wholly to perfecting one aspect of their being... They're the Cenobites from Hellraiser but worse.

I've been on here for a year and a half now, and I haven't seen anyone come out and say "I hate Emperor's Children. So stupid." It hasn't happened. Some people may not prefer them over others, fluffwise, but I haven't seen anyone despise them. However, a lot of people aren't fans of the EC on the tabletop, because they aren't as strong as they should be, fluff wise. I happen to like them in both, and run them in every chaos list.

I think there has been a decrease in the number of EC armies you see around, but not because people don't like them.

Chaos armies have grown less common in general because they're not flavour of the month at the moment.

But I think the number one reason you don't see EC specifically is a very simple one: GW stopped making tentacle pink!

I have no problem with Slaanesh, had a Slaanesh army many moons ago. I don't mind the colours or the characters or the ideology. What I don't like much are noise marines. Surely they can come up with a better concept for them than basically a bunch of glam rockers. It just seems so tame and frankly naff compared to other Chaos troops, I'll be they get laughed at down the pub by the other Chaos guys: "we are berzerkers, we have big chain axes!" "yeah, well we've got natty musical gear and some old Poison cover versions..." "hahahahahahahahahahahaha...."

I like Slaanesh, I just don't have a place for him/her in my force atm. Maybe with the new codex.... (plots)

Because no chaos space marine looks pretty scary in pink

timetowaste85 wrote:I've been on here for a year and a half now, and I haven't seen anyone come out and say "I hate Emperor's Children. So stupid." It hasn't happened. Some people may not prefer them over others, fluffwise, but I haven't seen anyone despise them. However, a lot of people aren't fans of the EC on the tabletop, because they aren't as strong as they should be, fluff wise. I happen to like them in both, and run them in every chaos list.

EC and Slannesh took a big hit with the newest codex and 5th edition. The biggest hit is that we lost damonettes and had to suffer with generic deamons. The loss of the rending, assault on the turn summoned, ladies really hurts. They were cheep bodies that really helped bulk out the infantry, it also helped that they could kill anything in the game with good rolls. They were never wasted points. This cheep bodies helped counter the more expensive noise marines (24 points each). Add to it that now cover saves everywhere (and 4+ to boot) and that blastmasters are now 40 points, one of our best guns just isn't that good anymore.

Yeah we now have lash, which is broken, but one broken power does not an army make.

I still have 2500 points of EC sporting the orange armor with green highlights waiting for their turn to return to the tabletop. I love the EC.

For me, it's the colours.

Automatic no deal. Pink and anything.
That and the almost guaranteed to show up defiler with schlong-cannon.

Some of us outgrew wang jokes before we finished being teens.

dude, I love slaanesh and the EC to the point where I have a slaanesh daemon, guard, chaos marine, slaaneshi dark elves, slaaneshi vampire counts and slaanesh warriors of chaos army with a true scale EC army in the works

its more that GW made the mistake of making a god of pleasure and perfection and then aimed the game at 13 year olds hence why so little love is shown to them. not to mention khorne is GW's chaos cash bitch and gets ramed down our mouths everytime chaos is mention -_-'

are you a member of emperoschildren.net? if not join up ^^

The real reason, in my mind, is what has only been briefly touched on here. Bewbs and pink paint jobs aside, their rules are awful. Yes, yes, they have fzorgle, but what else does a slaanesh list offer?

On the one hand, they have +1I. Going first against marines is neat, but against non-marines it's useless. Plus, what's the point of attacking first, if you're not really hitting all that hard? CSM squads are made death incarnate in close combat with lots of attacks their hidden power fists, the latter of which always attacks at I1, regardless of slaaneshiness. Pluss, if you're looking for good close combat skills, why not look for FNP and blight grenades or +1A and furious frikkin charge? Heck, even 1ksons are better in close combat because they basically shrug off power fists, power weapons, and rending attacks in a way noise marines could never hope for.

Well, perhaps they're a shooty army then? What super cool guns to they get? They can replace their regular bolters for basically a storm bolter, or a worse, short-range heavy bolter... ... woot. Then on top of that, you've got a different weapon that is also a crappy heavy bolter than can exchange itself for a plasma cannon, which isn't even that great either. Point for point, noise marine shooting is still cruddy, even if it's better than other god soldiers'...

... except nurgle, who get FNP against their own plasma guns and 1ksons who get friggin AP3 bolters and the ability to cast psychic powers. The blastmaster has nothing on a warptime force weapon or gifts of chaos. The fact that they get pinning weapons is really more of a joke than anything else.

As such, slaanesh armies shoot more poorly than shooty CSM loadouts and chop worse than choppy ones. Perhaps if they had something that they actually did well, more people would look past the bewbs and devote their minis to the god of perpetual orgasm.

Until then...

I think the problem being identified here is that GW have made it largely impossible to run a single chaos god army and pretty much forced anyone who wants a competitive list to 'mix'n'match' to get a decent force.

For me I want to see the next chaos releases offer much more variety so that each god is playable alone.

As an older player who 'grew up' with the idea that the chaos gods did not get on the idea of mixed armies is just silly, especially since in my conception Khorne hates Slaanesh and Nurgle hates Tzeentch. I could not in all conscience have a mixed Khorne-Slaanesh army since it seems basically wrong to me. However, when GW produced the last CSM codex they made this approach impossible. It just needs more options and variety to allow each god to be played alone if desired.

They also need to bring back proper demons with CSM.

That's another thing I am uncomfortable with from the olden days if you like. For me demons should be ferocious opponents. A lesser demon should be a terrifying opponent, not a 50/50 match for an IG trooper. A greater demon should be literally amongst the toughest things going. Demons should be rare vistiors and deadly, not swarming all over and chaff for the slaughter. Let's use renegade guard as cannon fodder not daemonettes.

Personally I find those mixed god demon armies really ludicrous. What has become of the chaos gods? Are they incredibly evil, selfish entities each determined to follow its own path and dominate all existence, crushing its fellow gods for their different views - or, some kind of minor bad-guys cooperative, sharing their resources and aiming for some kind of democracy? Chaos's evil has been toned down and down until their demons are weedy and their armies are dull mixes for powergamers.

lunarman wrote:It's because everyone thinks of them as these crazy pink marines, playing music

Which sort of makes me want to start a force of them... All old models or converted to have guitars of course...

infinite_array wrote:Why did they ever take Doomrider out of the Codex?

He was too real.


"Keh-keh-keh-keh-keh-keh YEEEAAAAAHH!"