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(Originally published by me on ATT)

The Fire Warrior team is often lambasted as a poor troop choice. Through examining shooting at 18" and 12" vs. MEQs, GEQs, Armor 11 and Armor 12, I compare their shooting with the most used troop type in the game, the Space Marine tactical squad. The two squads being examined are:

Fire Warriors
12 Shas'la 8 with Pulse Rifles/ 4 with Pulse Carbines
Shas'ui with Markerlight
Bonding Knife
1 Devilfish Transport
Disruption Pod
2 Seeker Missiles

Total: 245 pts.

Tactical Squad
10 Marines
Meltagun
Missile Launcher
Power Fist
1 Rhino Transport
Hunter-Killer Missile

Total: 245 pts.

In order to show the Fire Warriors strength, I will compare shooting from both squads at MEQ, GEQ, and then at eachother, from both 18" and 12"


18" Shooting

At 18" vs. MEQs the Firewarriors and Devilfish:
Do 1.888 wounds on average with a negligible chance of pinning.(assumes no use of seekers)
Space Marines and Rhino:
Do 1.555 wounds on average. (If the hunter killer missile is used, it goes up to 2-3 wounds on average)

At 18" vs. GEQ the Firewarriors and Devilfish:
Do 5.666 wounds on average, with 1-2 of the wounds pinning.(assumes no use of seekers)
Space Marines and Rhino
Do 3.555 wounds on average (assumes no use of hunter-killer)

At 18" vs Armor value 11 the Firewarriors and the Devilfish:
The Fire Warriors and the Devilfish have a 50% chance of a shaken result, with a 20% chance of a Stunned-Immobilized. ( If Seeker Missile is used, it has a 30% chance of producing a glancing or penetrating hit)
Space Marines and Rhino
Space Marine with Missile Launcher has 40% chance of producing a glancing or penetrating hit. ( If Hunter Killer is used, this goes up to 80%)

At 18" vs Armor value 12
The Fire Warriors and the Devilfish fall of to a 20% chance of producing a glancing or penetrating hit, with the seeker missile being the only effective weapon.
Space Marine and Rhino
If the hunter-killer is used, the Marines have a 66% chance of producing a hit glancing or penetrating hit.

18" Summary
With these builds, the Tau have a slight advantage against MEQs at 18", a larger advantage against GEQ's, and a significant advantage at combating armor value 11. Against armor value 12, the Tau are at a significant disadvantage.

12" Shooting

At 12" vs MEQs the Firewarriors and Devilfish:
Do 3 wounds with a negligible chance of pinning.
Space Marines and Rhino:
Do 3-4 wounds

At 12" vs. GEQs the Firewarriors and the Devilfish:
Do 10-11 Wounds, with 1-2 pinning.
Space Marines and Rhino
Do 8-9 wounds

At 12" vs. Armor 11 the Firewarriors and Devilfish
There is a 60% chance of shaking the target, with a 30% chance of stunning to Immobilizing.
Space Marines and Rhino
There is a almost 100% chance that between the Meltagun, missile launcher and hunter-killer, that there will be a penetrating or glancing hit.

At 12" vs. Armor 12 the Firewarriors and the Devilfish
There is a 20% chance for a glancing or penetrating hit from the seeker missile.
Space Marines and Rhino
The chance of getting a penetrating or glancing hit is the roughly the same as shooting at Armor 11, but the relative damage result is slightly lower.

12" Shooting Summary
The Tau are only stronger at shooting vs. GEQ's at this range. Space Marines have significant advantages vs. Armor 12, and a slight advantage vs. MEQs.

Durability to Shooting
It is obvious that the lower toughness poorer armor save Tau are at a disadvantage when it comes time to take damage. While both units wound each other roughly the same amount in shooting, there are a much higher number of AP4 large blast templates in 40k as a whole than AP3. Where the Tau become more durable is their transport. For 30 points more than a Chimera, you get a vehicle that is twice as durable (disruption pod). The front armor of the Devilfish makes it immune to strength 5 weapons, and more durable against strength 6. (Heavy Bolters and Assault Cannons, I am looking at you.) Even better, the disruption pod means the damage to the vehicle is roughly cut in half. In addition, being a skimmer allows the Devilfish more mobility than its tracked counterparts.

By comparison, the Space Marine infantry are much more durable outside the confines of their transport, but their vehicle is vulnerable by comparison. The front armor 11 makes it touchable by strength 5 weapons, and can be targeted by strengths 6-7 with a reasonable chance of damage.

Conclusion

Fire Warriors make a poor showing against MEQs, and Armor value 12 compared to Tactical Marines. However, against armies that bring large amounts of GEQ's, or Armor value 11, they are still a viable, if not outstanding, troop choice. When fielding Tau, it is vital to choose units before each battle if you are aware of your opponents army. When facing GEQs, Fire Warriors can be an above average choice.

Comments and Criticism are welcome. How have your Fire Warriors faired against GEQs on the table top?

It is germaine to mention that it is a terrible idea to build FW squads with mixed weapons. You go all PC or PR, no mixing. This might skew your data slightly. Also the range issue is not inconsequential. Still, I appreciate the attention. Saying that FW are a worthless troop choice is silly because it almost never seems to take into account what they are meant for and over focuses on T3 and AS4.

One thing to mention is that GEQ units can beat fire warriors in assault in their default configs. Take a vet squad, 22 attacks on the charge, hitting first on 3's. 3.67 fire warriors die. 10 firewarriors, after losing 3.67, only kill 1 veteran. Lost combat by 2 or more, LD check on a 5... 6 if you pay for the sarge.

In shooting, 10 firewarriors get 10 hits rapidfiring, will kill 8.3 out of cover or 4.167 with cover, either way causing a LD check. Likewise, 10 vets with 3 meltas cause 1.67 melta kills (half in cover) and 2.167 las kills.

End result, firewarriors still need to get the jump on even costed IG with shooting, as IG without cc upgrades beat them in CC. Its not as bad as with marines, but its not unheard of to take cc upgrades on IG units either.

DevianID wrote:End result, firewarriors still need to get the jump on even costed IG with shooting, as IG without cc upgrades beat them in CC. Its not as bad as with marines, but its not unheard of to take cc upgrades on IG units either.

Sure. If the guardsmen charge. In actuality the win goes to the charger there, as guardsmen hit 2/3, wound 1/2 and kill 1/2
while FW hit 1/2, wound 1/2, kill 2/3. Hmm... looks like exactly the same odds... That 4+ save is often overlooked. Besides, Guardsmen will be unlikely to be in that situation anyway barring very strange circumstances. However FW charging someone is hilarious. Never underestimate the power of surprise.

CaptainGarro wrote:
Fire Warriors make a poor showing against MEQs, and Armor value 12 compared to Tactical Marines. However, against armies that bring large amounts of GEQ's, or Armor value 11, they are still a viable, if not outstanding, troop choice. When fielding Tau, it is vital to choose units before each battle if you are aware of your opponents army. When facing GEQs, Fire Warriors can be an above average choice.

What about a TAC list? Suddenly, something happens...

 Nagashek wrote:

DevianID wrote:End result, firewarriors still need to get the jump on even costed IG with shooting, as IG without cc upgrades beat them in CC. Its not as bad as with marines, but its not unheard of to take cc upgrades on IG units either.

Sure. If the guardsmen charge. In actuality the win goes to the charger there, as guardsmen hit 2/3, wound 1/2 and kill 1/2
while FW hit 1/2, wound 1/2, kill 2/3. Hmm... looks like exactly the same odds... That 4+ save is often overlooked. Besides, Guardsmen will be unlikely to be in that situation anyway barring very strange circumstances. However FW charging someone is hilarious. Never underestimate the power of surprise.

Take in mind that Guardsmen also attack first, so no, even with 4+ save it's still not even

This is not even a close comparison.

FW have 30" range, that's why the indefinelty better than space marines in their shooting duty.

And they are dirt cheap.

/thread over

Think breaches if you want to roll in devilfish. But that's not a plan you could want in your game.

Ah, gents, this thread was 4 years old. Probably no need to continue with this.

It LIVES!