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Is it possible can they infect space marines? I was thinking of making an army with chapter master for the patriarch, libbie for the magus, genestealers for scouts, hybrids for marines etc. What you think?

Tis a silly idea.

Genestealer Cults require years and years to infiltrate and sublimate themselves into a society. There's just too much oversight within a Chapter for that to happen very believably/

I mean, far be it for me to tell you not to do something (since I play both Cult and Marines, lol), but if you're going to pursue that angle, it's going to need a pretty unique back story to be believable.

It wouldn't work because Marines are sterile.

Genestealer cults tend to work the following way;

- Pure strain genestealer, referred to as 'first generation', infiltrates planet

- Infects humans, which physically twists and mutates the human as the genestealer DNA exerts dominance. Also binds these 'second generation' cultists to the hive mind.

- The children, third generation cultists, have physical deformaties and mutations but are closer to human.

- These third generation cultists mature & reproduce quickly but are shunned by humans because they're mutants

- The subsequent children of third generation cultists look just like any other human, except that they tend to be bald and have large eyes.

- The first child of these 'fourth generation' cultists will be a pure strain genestealer, thus the cycle starts again. A cult is considered to have matured when the fourth generation has matured (the rate at which they mature & reproduce is the same as for pure humans).

As you can see there is no chance of Marines being a genestealer cult. Also if by some chance a Marine were to be infected then the Apothecary will note the distortion in the Chapter gene-seed rather quickly.

There is a picture which shows the above cycle, but I'll be damned if I can find it now I need it :S

Ya SMs don't have kids, so they would have to something other then the normal. Like infecting the gene seed of a SM and having that seed passed on till the hive mind can take root.

This one?

Not quite but essentially gets the idea across

Well, I had this one backstory written... Lemme find it.

Here we are!

"Long ago, the Hornets were one of the chapers from the cursed founding. They were a group of proud space marines, but had far too few apothecaries, and instead created a group called the watchers. These were somewhat like apothecaries, however welcomed mutation, as long as it was beneficial. Soon enough, Theye were growing talons, and had a hard, chitinous skin. Once, they dabbled with serious genetic mutations, but they all failed. all but one. He was mute, but also telepathic. When they released him into the chapter, he seemed to function perfectly. But the problem was that with prolonged contact, others in the team would "contract" the same mutations. Soon enough, the soldiers were reading minds and acting before the order was given. The watchers decided that this mutation would be beneficial, since the link was near instantaneous, and communications were more reliable than astropaths. However, they did not study it long enough to learn that as the mutation aged, the Marines became more beastlike, until combat consumed their minds. By the time it was seen, the entire geenseed stock was corrupted. However, instead of turning themselves in, they left on some vast "Purification." Occasionally they will arrive unexpectedly to save a population, and always treat other chapters with respect, but always work alone, and never answer when called. When looked into, their reclusiveness has spared entire chapters from catching the infection. Recent sighting claim that they appear like the dreaded genestealer, but those that see them in combat appreciate their asistance nonetheless. Thus the fate of the Hornets is unknown, and their return always signifies a relief to those entagled combatants, that a whole chapter may, at any time, may descend from the sky, and save you."

What do you think? could it be applied?

Not really, that's out there even for cursed founding chapters. And the fact that the big I hasnt looked into them is more then a wee bit silly. Also, genestealers dont work like that. Too many ways to make it impossible, so it's a no

Ok so I guess guard are the only way too play a genestealer cult nowadays, any idea what I could use as a good close combat unit?

Rennoc215 wrote:Well, I had this one backstory written... Lemme find it.

Here we are!

"Long ago, the Hornets were one of the chapers from the cursed founding. They were a group of proud space marines, but had far too few apothecaries, and instead created a group called the watchers. These were somewhat like apothecaries, however welcomed mutation, as long as it was beneficial. Soon enough, Theye were growing talons, and had a hard, chitinous skin. Once, they dabbled with serious genetic mutations, but they all failed. all but one. He was mute, but also telepathic. When they released him into the chapter, he seemed to function perfectly. But the problem was that with prolonged contact, others in the team would "contract" the same mutations. Soon enough, the soldiers were reading minds and acting before the order was given. The watchers decided that this mutation would be beneficial, since the link was near instantaneous, and communications were more reliable than astropaths. However, they did not study it long enough to learn that as the mutation aged, the Marines became more beastlike, until combat consumed their minds. By the time it was seen, the entire geenseed stock was corrupted. However, instead of turning themselves in, they left on some vast "Purification." Occasionally they will arrive unexpectedly to save a population, and always treat other chapters with respect, but always work alone, and never answer when called. When looked into, their reclusiveness has spared entire chapters from catching the infection. Recent sighting claim that they appear like the dreaded genestealer, but those that see them in combat appreciate their asistance nonetheless. Thus the fate of the Hornets is unknown, and their return always signifies a relief to those entagled combatants, that a whole chapter may, at any time, may descend from the sky, and save you."

What do you think? could it be applied?

Needs more grimdark. How about their showing up both saves and damns the local population since the Inquisition is hot on their tail and will decend on any planet the Hornets are sighted on in order to purge any mutants.

The Hornets were one of the ill fated chapters from the "Cursed Founding". This group of once proud and noble space marines was struck with one of the worse fates imaginable, there entire apothecary corps was slaughter to but a handful during the Gene-stealer purge of Drago IX. From these few surviving apothecaries a radical group was formed. Dubbed "The Watchers" they welcomed mutation beneficial to the chapter and its dwelling numbers. After the purge and the Chapters emergency draft of the local populace, the Watchers began to notice mutations in the new recruits. Growing talons and flesh growing chinton platting and razor sharp teeth, the implants only making these accelerate.

The Watchers wanting to keep these changes seeing them as a advantage to the chapter and its low number of battle brothers. Eventually however, recruits became mindless beast unable to follow orders, some even turning on there once kin. On the verge of damnation and extinction all seemed lost. Until one recruit know simply as Venda showed that he could communicate with his brothers, showed that he could lead the Hornets back into The Emperor's light. After years of secret training on Drago, Venda was elected Chapter Master and the newly promoted to full battle brother status marines departed in stealthy silence, once more driving onward to begin the Emperor's crusade. The downfall of the Chapter had not be avoided so easily however, as the chapter continued doing the Emperor's work the Watchers noticed there battle Brother's where becoming more independent, faster ,stronger and obeying orders before they left the Chapter Masters mouth.

This seemed like a great break threw for the chapter, until these same Marines eventually once again reverted back into a bestial state never to recover. Some still able to speak screaming out of a distance voice urging them to feed upon the world. Already aware that they are considered outcast and heretics, the Hornets have always chosen to fight for the Emperor out of his grace since there unfateful depletion. The chapter believes it is being punished for there radical behavior by the Emperor as they slowly slip into extinction. Venda and his Watchers always answer the call for assistance from Imperial planets, taking on the dreaded appearance of the gene-stealer and a purple bald giant surrounded by clad in black bodyguard bearing a apothecary symbol.

Populace seem grateful for the assistance, until they turn on the Marines and hound them back to there thunderhawks. Even the Inquisition punishes those the Hornets claim to help, purgign enitre worlds they have come into contact with,even after the populace ran them out. Now on a great "Purging" lead by Venda and his Watchers, the Hornets seek to undo this wrong against them and to help the Imperium, even if they do not desire it so

This is my version for you chapter, hope it was ok you can use it if you like seems abit more possible what you where trying to do, but that's just me talking

WD 114
The Stealer's egg never hatches - in fact, 'egg' is something of a misnomer; it is more like a cancer than an egg. When implanted, the egg begins to alter the host's genetic structure, cell by cell, wreaking particular damage to the victim's reproductive system. The victim shows little outward sign of the infection - in fact, he gains some of the Stealer's remarkable strength, resilience, and longevity, becoming healthier than he was before. However, the damage is horribly evident in the victim's children.

You could, at a push, have a Marine who had been infected by a Genestealer during a Sus - an sleep, after say, they were separated from their squad and injured severely. But there wouldn't be any other generation Genestealers as Marines don't reproduce.

But then a Space Marines genetic capability and resilience might mean that they cannot be infected.

Pilau Rice wrote:You could, at a push, have a Marine who had been infected by a Genestealer during a Sus - an sleep, after say, they were separated from their squad and injured severely. But there wouldn't be any other generation Genestealers as Marines don't reproduce.

But then a Space Marines genetic capability and resilience might mean that they cannot be infected.

Stealers are adaptable - it is entirely possible that given time they would adapt (either themselves, or the marine host) to allow infection of others.

SilverMK2 wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:You could, at a push, have a Marine who had been infected by a Genestealer during a Sus - an sleep, after say, they were separated from their squad and injured severely. But there wouldn't be any other generation Genestealers as Marines don't reproduce.

But then a Space Marines genetic capability and resilience might mean that they cannot be infected.

Stealers are adaptable - it is entirely possible that given time they would adapt (either themselves, or the marine host) to allow infection of others.

But then they adapt to much, like the Ymgarl 'stealers and become useless as they possibly won't be reintegrated into the Hive.

Cool possibilities though as you could have a new race of Marines infected with the Genestealer gene.

How would they infect others, a corruption of the Belcher's Gland maybe?

I always thought Genestealer Cult army was awesome. I played Tyranids lightly in 2nd edition and was gonna start a cult army, then 3rd Ed hit and I gave up on the game for a bit.

I think Imperial Guard cult would be sweet!

Pilau Rice wrote:But then they adapt to much, like the Ymgarl 'stealers and become useless as they possibly won't be reintegrated into the Hive.

That could be a cool fluff reason as to why they are fighting against 'nids

Cool possibilities though as you could have a new race of Marines infected with the Genestealer gene.

How would they infect others, a corruption of the Belcher's Gland maybe?

Hmmm... not really sure how they would infect others... though the implantation of corrupted gene seed would certainly be the top candidate for me.

Perhaps a squad (or half squad) with apothecary is initially infected (the remains of a small force sent to clear an infected hulk?).

As far as i remember "Space Hulk" BL book, infestation of SM is impossible - advanced genetics of SM actually kills infested marine with some gruesome effects while fighting off infestation. So only way i can think of infested chapter - is that serfs got infested and somehow infested gene-seeds...but with all the screening etc you'll need rather Ravenguardish emergency or very sloppy chapter for infested marines to not be found and exterminated.

SilverMK2 wrote:
Hmmm... not really sure how they would infect others... though the implantation of corrupted gene seed would certainly be the top candidate for me.

Perhaps a squad (or half squad) with apothecary is initially infected (the remains of a small force sent to clear an infected hulk?).

How about the Apothecary is the soul survivor of a squad dispatched to investigate an infested hulk. The Apothecary has been infected with the 'stealer Gene and slowly falls to it. Using the infection from his own progenoid glands he passes the gene to the deceased members progenoids and from there implants these in new aspirants. I'm not sure how long something like that would be able to go unnoticed though and it's doubtful that it would be Chapter wide.

I think it would have to be an Apothecary as Geneseed is tested for impurities before implantation.

What if the genstealer gene lied romant until after the boys were chosen to become space marines as the tests weren't as scrutinising with the need for soldiers asap, a la raven guard?

Wait, cant orks become infected with the stealer virus? And their fungi.

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:Wait, cant orks become infected with the stealer virus? And their fungi.

WD 115 seems to think so

Due to the sheer number of Humans throughout the Imperium they are the race most commonly affected by Genestealers. Nevertheless, there is no reason why any other race cannot be infected; Ork-Genestealer Hybrids are perfectly possible - indeed many exist. The appearance of such Hybrids would, of course, depend on the parent race, and they would show different physical characteristics than a Human-Genestealer crossbreed.

Lord Chiasson wrote: The Hornets were one of the ill fated chapters from the "Cursed Founding". This group of once proud and noble space marines was struck with one of the worse fates imaginable, there entire apothecary corps was slaughter to but a handful during the Gene-stealer purge of Drago IX. From these few surviving apothecaries a radical group was formed. Dubbed "The Watchers" they welcomed mutation beneficial to the chapter and its dwelling numbers. After the purge and the Chapters emergency draft of the local populace, the Watchers began to notice mutations in the new recruits. Growing talons and flesh growing chinton platting and razor sharp teeth, the implants only making these accelerate.

The Watchers wanting to keep these changes seeing them as a advantage to the chapter and its low number of battle brothers. Eventually however, recruits became mindless beast unable to follow orders, some even turning on there once kin. On the verge of damnation and extinction all seemed lost. Until one recruit know simply as Venda showed that he could communicate with his brothers, showed that he could lead the Hornets back into The Emperor's light. After years of secret training on Drago, Venda was elected Chapter Master and the newly promoted to full battle brother status marines departed in stealthy silence, once more driving onward to begin the Emperor's crusade. The downfall of the Chapter had not be avoided so easily however, as the chapter continued doing the Emperor's work the Watchers noticed there battle Brother's where becoming more independent, faster ,stronger and obeying orders before they left the Chapter Masters mouth.

This seemed like a great break threw for the chapter, until these same Marines eventually once again reverted back into a bestial state never to recover. Some still able to speak screaming out of a distance voice urging them to feed upon the world. Already aware that they are considered outcast and heretics, the Hornets have always chosen to fight for the Emperor out of his grace since there unfateful depletion. The chapter believes it is being punished for there radical behavior by the Emperor as they slowly slip into extinction. Venda and his Watchers always answer the call for assistance from Imperial planets, taking on the dreaded appearance of the gene-stealer and a purple bald giant surrounded by clad in black bodyguard bearing a apothecary symbol.

Populace seem grateful for the assistance, until they turn on the Marines and hound them back to there thunderhawks. Even the Inquisition punishes those the Hornets claim to help, purgign enitre worlds they have come into contact with,even after the populace ran them out. Now on a great "Purging" lead by Venda and his Watchers, the Hornets seek to undo this wrong against them and to help the Imperium, even if they do not desire it so

This is my version for you chapter, hope it was ok you can use it if you like seems abit more possible what you where trying to do, but that's just me talking

Now that's a good way to sneak in stealers into your chapter, them apothecaries always check for ANY signs of wrongness....

The way Genestealers infect their victim is by Hypnosis using their psychic powers. Marines would be resistant to this enough to where they would have time to kill the Genestealer. Regular humans freeze out of horror and in that moment get transfixed. Marines just go into their knee jerk "kill the xenos" mode.

Grey Templar wrote:The way Genestealers infect their victim is by Hypnosis using their psychic powers. Marines would be resistant to this enough to where they would have time to kill the Genestealer. Regular humans freeze out of horror and in that moment get transfixed. Marines just go into their knee jerk "kill the xenos" mode.

Not all marines are mentally shielded. Indeed, they are no more physically protected against psychic attack than any other human. Some chapters will give extensive training so that they can cope with mental attacks, others will be less extensive. Indeed, if you read the Eisenhorn books (I think it is the second one), there are some guardsmen and marine (I think it was a single marine, might have been a couple) who accompany him into a psychically distorted fortress, and the marine has great difficulty adapting, while the guardsmen are (more or less) fine.

Besides which, wounded marines would be easy prey to stealers. If they were attacking in the underhive, or a space hulk, there are plenty of places for a marine to get lost in, plenty of places where stealers could separate off marines to make them easy pickings.



Regards the chapter, I still think that the handful of remaining marines from a Hulk clearance force being hunted down and infected during the hulk's long drift through the warp/space, cut off from the Imperium, would make the best seeding ground for a marine/stealer hybrid. Plenty of time for them to be worn down and hunted, also gives you a reasonable pool of marines to form the basis of a hybrid army, and also allows you to work in an apothecary who could seed the altered geneseed into new "initiates", to further build up the marine/hybrid/stealer force.

Could be quite something.

yes, but they are mentally conditioned. This will make Hypnotysing them much more difficult, at least giving the marine the few seconds he needs to kill the Genestealer.

Then we have the second road block in that the Marine's body will fight back against the implant/it will be discovered by the Apothecary.

And finally, Marines don't reproduce via natural means. and any infected geneseed will get tossed assuming it makes it that far.

Grey Templar wrote:yes, but they are mentally conditioned. This will make Hypnotysing them much more difficult, at least giving the marine the few seconds he needs to kill the Genestealer.

Sure, in a stand up fight in open terrain, a marine and stealer are not really well matched, but put them in an enclosed space, and a stealer is more than a match for a marine. The fluff is full of marines being ripped apart by stealers in seconds. If they want to injure and implant the marines, I don't see it being too difficult for them to do, especially with a small number of marines in terrain controlled by the stealers.

Then we have the second road block in that the Marine's body will fight back against the implant/it will be discovered by the Apothecary.

Marines have increased resistance to disease, but not total immunity. The stealer implants are all about re-writing the host to become a willing part of the collective, from the DNA upwards. Again, you are right, if this were a large force, or the marines returned to their chapter, they probably would be found out eventually, but that is not the scenario I would present.

And finally, Marines don't reproduce via natural means. and any infected geneseed will get tossed assuming it makes it that far.

This last part is why I suggest a small group of infected marines going off and doing things on their own, rather than rejoining the main chapter

One of the Word Bearers novels (the second, I think) has one of Lorgar's finest being implanted. However, he senses what is happening to him, and has his buddies cure* him.

* With a bolter round.

You could always say that these are part of some insane Haemonculus' plan. Create tortured mutant super-marines. Unleash them on galaxy. Follow the carnage show around while absorbing the pain and eating popcorn.

The fluff problems with this are:

1. they don't and can't breed so a cult couldn't actually form.
2. space marines have regular medicals so any abnormality would be noticed
3. space marines chapters have well trained psykers who would spot the infected a mile off

The main problem is that no loyal, renegade or chaos chapter would want to host (ie slave) to a genestealer, anyone infected would either be killed or healed depending on the group

BluntmanDC wrote:The fluff problems with this are:

4. Not reading any of the discussion on the problem to see the work arounds?