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So, as a fluff (or crunch, as some people refer to this kind of lore) lover, I wondered: What wargame do people consider to hold the best fluff/crunch?
Personally, I only know fluff/crunch from 40k, WHFB, and InfiNity, and out of those three, I consider 40k to have the best. But there are other wargames I have no idea what the lore is, or how good it is.
I tried including as many options that I knew of, though I know nothing of the amount of lore they contain.
WHFB is best that I know. It also has great features that I find appealing to me (movements that are not 6 inch moves across the board, awsome magic system, great scaling for larger battles, fun lore and story with lots of backround to suck you in and really get to know your army on a personal scale.
40k has the deepest and most interesting lore for my money. WFB isn't bad, but it's a product of it's time: very cliched and predictiable.
The 40k fluff, both new and old, offer something that few other wargames offer: a great framework to build your own armies and stories. There's enough lore to know how to build your own space marine chapter or craftworld. IG regiments can be based on any historical or sci-fi trope you an imagine.
There is also something interesting about disperate factions all having some reason to be fighting. Eldar vs. Slaanesh, Chaos vs. Imperium, Orks and Nids vs. all, the Tau emerging, the Dark Eldar needing souls to survive... it's great stuff.
There's also the omnipresent but rarely articulated underlying theme of morality and social contract. The Imperium is a terrible place, where human rights are non-existent and the ends always justify the means. But is that aceptable when the option is oblivion?
Iron Kingdoms fluff(IKRPG, WM/H) is my fave. The story is constantly moving forward, there's a depth of information on how the world and nations work, and it's more character driven.
It also can appeal to a variety of tastes: There's magic and monsters for the Fantasy crowd, a dash of Wild West and Samurai movies, elements of VSF for the Steampunkers, and giant robots beating the crap out of each other for the Sci-Fi guys.
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For a number of reasons I can understand why 40K has the highest rating...well, on this forum anyway, and I can respect that. My own opinion is that Infinity has the best fluff to date, and that's in spite of having no resource even approaching the Black Library (for what it's worth!)
Keeping within context of the thread and comparing to what is clearly (in the minds of others) the market leader in fluff terms, Infinity, to me, is for adults and people who have some life experience and can relate to current affairs and global issues, while 40K is for the more child like mindset, with simplistic concepts.
I'm not even going to venture down the road of the consistency of the 40K fluff, that's been done a million times elsewhere, however, it remains a detractor for the setting.
Considering how "young" Infinity is, it will hopefully expand on it's fluff and continue to impress (me at least) with it's adult themes and complexity.
Biccat: Ah, so that's how it is. I was under the impression that "fluff" is "personal lore". Like, the lore for your Space Marine chapter or whatnot, whereas "crunch" would be the "Universal lore", i.e. the lore that's set in stone (and by set in stone, I mean the lore that's in actual books, how much it may change).
PhantomViper: Sorry for that, didn't even know there was a Wargame named as such I tried to look around a little for the more famous wargames quickly, since I hold little knowledge of them myself.
To the rest of you: Thanks for commenting! I'm kind of curious to the lore of the wargames I don't know much about. Anyone care to give a brief in-depth (however that would work ) description of the world(s) and lore(s), and why you find them appealing?
I see some have already started doing this, but I just thought I could encourage it a bit ^^
I'm going to go with Battletech. It easily rivals (and exceeds) the amount of detail that 40k has, with the same premise of near-constant warfare. It also has a great deal of political intrigue, something I always enjoy watching unfold in stories. There's nothing more satisfying (or frustrating) than to have the triumphant hero lose his entire kingdom to his scheming sister, or watch an entire war unfold at the behest of a secret organization.
For me personally I think its FOW but thats because I am really intrested in the second world war. 40k I would say is second to me. Note this is just my opinion
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orks-da mega stomperz (ex goffs and deathskulls)-2500pts
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I didn't include LotR because that's more of a setting with an added wargame, as opposed to a game which has developed a rich background.
Don't know why I decided to include FoW anyway though.
I'm going to go with Battletech. It easily rivals (and exceeds) the amount of detail that 40k has, with the same premise of near-constant warfare. It also has a great deal of political intrigue, something I always enjoy watching unfold in stories. There's nothing more satisfying (or frustrating) than to have the triumphant hero lose his entire kingdom to his scheming sister, or watch an entire war unfold at the behest of a secret organization.
I'll drink to that! I never really got into the storylines after the fall of Clan Smoke Jaguar, but I've played and read a lot of classic battletech (3025 to ~3060) and love the 'cloak and dagger' aspect of the setting.
I'm also going to have to say one of the GW games. Simply because they have been around so much longer than games like Warmachine and Hordes so they have had more time to build up their fluff. Out of the two though, I'm going to say 40k, simply because it's fluff is more appealing to me.
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I think WHFB is more creative/original than the 40k stuff, but I would have to say those two systems far exceed the lore of any other game out there atm. Warmahordes is even more original, but it lacks that certain quality/depth, I attribute that to a lack of novelizations to expand upon the setting.
After that, the background of all the other systems is all an afterthought, it only exists to sell the rules.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
I voted other for Lord of the Rings. It doesn't really matter that the game developed after the "fluff". Its a classic.
WHFB fluff is also very good. Just finished the Red Duke and the Nagash trilogy. Inspirational stuff there.
FOW background is also abundant and fascinating, but there are other WWII rule systems out there that are as good or better, so one cannot give all of the credit for WWII to FOW.
One more vote for Battletech. Really well developed, extremely consistent (within it's own idiom), almost no RetCon. War, Intrigue, politics, a bit of romance and a timeline that actually advances!, what's not to love. BT did take a bit of a detour in the Mechwarrior Clix era, but they're incorporating that and moving on in a very strong way. In BT things actually change. Factions are destroyed, boundaries are pushes and technology advances. This happens so much that when someone games BT, you have to decide which era you are fighting with.
I really like the 40k universe as well. It's probably the most extensively written gaming universe out there, but it's not nearly as coherent as BT, has lots of retcon and, and it doesn't seem to advance the story the way BT does. In 40k, the only way a faction disappears is when GW gets tired of making figures for it and that hasn't happened in almsot 20 years. It's the same factions fighting the same battles without anything changing. The only sort of dynamic, universe-changing storylines come from the Horus Heresy, and we already know how it is going to end.
On a completely different tack, I really enjoyed the fluff in Tomorrow's War. It's not a very deep background as there's only one book out so far, and probably won't be more than a couple others. However they seemed to have an extremely realistic and wide ranging take on what types of governments and organizations would be formed as Humanity reaches new planets.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/21 19:37:48
chaos0xomega wrote:
After that, the background of all the other systems is all an afterthought, it only exists to sell the rules.
Are you actually saying that isn't the case for GW games?
Yes, I know almost as many people who buy Black Library novelizations and not the games as I do the reverse. The setting may have started that way, but it has definitely evolved into its own standalone component. Its safe to say that the Horus Heresy novels didn't make the NY Times Bestseller list by sales to the player base alone.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
Any made up story generally only palely imitates what humans have done to one another some time in the past.
Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better.
or he will find you and eat you in your sleep! 
I tried to look around a little for the more famous wargames quickly, since I hold little knowledge of them myself.
Black templars-1850
Vior'la sept tau-1500pts
