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How do Vanilla Marines beat Grey Knights?

I have this as my working list. This list is for a tourni but I'm mostly worried about GK players.

Sicarius

5 man Sternguard -power fist, 1 combi-melta, Drop pod

1 Dreadnought, Heavy Flamer, Assault Cannon, Drop pod

10 Tactical Marines, Power weapon Melta bombs, melta gun, Multi melta (this unit will infiltrate due to sicarius)

10 Scout Squad, Melta bombs and a Missile Launcher

5 man Vanguard Vet squad Thunder Hammer, 4 Power Weapons and 5 Storm Shields, Drop Pod.

10 man Devastator Squad 2 Multi-meltas, 2 Lascannons.

Total points 1500

What would you change in this list and how would you use it agents grey knights?

If you're going to try to tweak a list vs. GKs then I don't think pods are the way to go... and I use pods all the time in my main vanilla list. GK's will screw with your pod drop which will negate any effective alpha strike you're trying to do.

How are your scouts outfitted?

Why pod in the Vanguard Vets? Kind of defeats their main advantage of assaulting on the turn they deep strike.

I assume you'll be combat squadding the dev's to separate the two different heavy weapons.

I don't get the sternguard in that configuration.

eh, there's not much about the list I wouldn't change, honestly....

Sicarius is not worth his points, he kinda sucks.

5 sternguard with 1 combi melta in a drop pod aren't going to do very much.

Vanguard are a terrible choice for codex marines, way too expensive, especially as you have them kitted out.

Devastators are a sub-par heavy support choice.

Since you're taking this army to a tourney, I'm going to focus on advice that will make your army more tourney-competitive.

- Sicarius isn't a bad HQ per se, but in this particular list he's not adding much, plus he's pretty expensive for the points level. I would highly suggest dropping him and adding a Librarian, especially if you're worried about Grey Knights. This frees up 100 points, and gets you a psychic hood to counter GK powers, as well as (depending on power selection) a flamer that toasts power armor and/or a way to screw over GK invulnerable saves.

- Your Vanguard Veteran squad is hella expensive for what they do. Including the Drop Pod, this unit is over 300 points(!) for 5 guys that will fall over pretty easily. Storm shields are great, but your Marines still die to massed fire like any other Marines. A similar role (infantry close combat guys that deep strike into play) could be filled much more cheaply by a 5-man Assault Terminator squad and a few locator beacons on your pods. This would not only be cheaper, but about twice as survivable to small arms fire (2+ save versus 3+).

There are many other changes you could make to this list to make it more competitive, but these are the big two that I think would make the most difference. Plus, you don't need to break the bank to make these changes - one librarian blister and one box of assault termies and you're set, plus whatever units you decide to add with the 200 points or so you would save.

I have little experience, especially with tournament play, but vanilla marines are kind of a jack-of-all-trades army, right? Take a balanced list, avoid huge point sinks (like the ones pointed out above) and trust in your ability to react to scenarios, opposing armies and strategies better then most other armies I guess would be my tip.

Essentially the best advice anyone can give you is to almost start completely from scratch with the list.

As far as advice about how to play against grey knights? Focus on shooting them, and important vehicle targets need to be focused down as fortitude will negate any stunlock attempts. Remember that for durability their PAGK are only as resilient as your marines, so use that to your advantage.

Plasma weapons can be your friends against GK and as cool as psycannons are, they only negate your armour save if they rend so you're getting the better deal (unless you roll really bad due to "gets hot"). If you want to take Sternguard I would kit them with combi meltas, it gives them the ability to pop any high AV targets they may drop pod next to or switch to vengeance rounds to clean up any PAGK out in the open.

I would definitely fit in a Libby or just replace your current HQ with one. Hooding every little ability a GK player uses gets quite annoying and if it works against the right abilities can put a speed bump in their plans for a turn.

I would drop the vanguard and replace it with some TH/SS termies. Your vanguard will never have the chance to even hit GK in melee due to the fact that each GK squad has more then a couple halberds that strike at I 6 so you'll all be cut down before you can retaliate. The termies however have that beautiful 3++ so they should stick around long enough to crush some skulls.

Drop the devs unless you're really hooked to these guys. An auto/las pred could fullfill much of the same role and not have to sit in one spot to do it. It also gives you more points to pick up some more troops or possibly transports for your troops, footslogging is never your friend unless you have some good cover to hide behind.

I hope this helps in some way, best of luck at your tournament!

I play Smurfs and GKs, so I can try and give you some general advice on improving your list while throwing in some stuff that will make GKs worry.

I don't know what models you have, but like the suggestions above, there are serveral things I would suggest replacing.

Replacing Sicarius with a Libby is a must. A Libby with Null Zone/Avenger is a solid utility HQ that can provide support and not cost too many points.

It looks like you are planning on podding in the Dread and the VGVs or SGVs in T1 to cause problems. I would replace the two infantry DPs with Rhinos or Razors. The configuration you have for your SGVs is pretty much the contents of the box, right? If you want to Pod in SGVs (which isn't a great idea imo), you really should invest in combis for all the guys. You can still pod the Dread in (warp quake permitting) at a distance to try and get side armor shots.

VGVs are pretty much non-workable the way you have them configured. If you were keeping Sicarius, you would be better off just running them as a command squad to at least get FNP, but I don't recommend that. If you have Assault Termy models, you are definately better off using them instead. Even Vanilla Terminators will be better than the VGVs. At the very least, cut out on the bling and go with more bodies. Give the Sarg and maybe 1-2 other guys special weapons and let the others just go with BP/Chainsword.

The 10 Man Scout Sq is begging for Telion to get them stealth and pick stuff off. At 1500, picking off special weapons or PFs is really nice. That or ensuring the ML hits an MC.

If you cut down on the frills of the VGVs and your HQ, you should also look at taking another Tactical Squad. I never like running less than 3 full troops choices at 1500. There is nothing terrible about your configuration for your current tactical squad, but personally I would drop the PW for a combi weapon.

The strength of Vanilla Marines comes from their fast attack options of MM attack bikes and Landspeeders. Either of those would be a better choice than your Devestators. I would probably recommend the Attack Bikes, as you will want MMs. If you go with Speeders, I would recommend running them as Typhoons, which will allow them to stay outside of Pyscannon range. However, Pysflemen make a mess of all of them. (Hint... kill those first)

The thing that GKs hate more than anything is AV 13-14. If you can field a couple of Preds, they will provide cheap, reliable fire support. GKs have to close within 24" and hope to rend with Pyscannons to touch them. With good positioning, you can keep firing for several turns before your opponent can scratch you. They may try to fire Pysflemen, but that's better than them shooting at your AV11-12.

Unfortunately, all those are pretty major changes... and it will play completely different from your current list. However, they will make your list more balanced and better able to handle GKs and any other army out there.