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So how are people going to deal with the new Vampires?

Waiting to see the new book would be a good start...

tmarichards wrote:Waiting to see the new book would be a good start...

Indeed, very tro... uh droll... but given that the Hexwraiths are ethereal, and will no doubt be fielded in units, it is a new challenge.

marielle wrote:

tmarichards wrote:Waiting to see the new book would be a good start...

Indeed, very tro... uh droll... but given that the Hexwraiths are ethereal, and will no doubt be fielded in units, it is a new challenge.

Seriously?! Please don't start with the 'VCs iz gunna be suz broken!!1!!!11!' yet...
We have no idea of the cost for hexwraiths, what part of the list they'll be in, and/or if they'll be regular cav or perhaps (gasp!) 'Fast Cavalry'! (at which point they won't be a huge threat to ranked units)

Seriously! I've spent almost 2 years now having to drop 80% of my army book into the garbage can while trying to justy how my prissy & girly little Lahmians wear heavy armour and summon hordes of deranged & smelly ghouls while toting around Vlad's personal standard which Mannfred has obviously kindly 'loaned' out to my grave guard!

If anything, you'd think everyone would at least be jumping for joy that 99.9% of VC armies won't look the same anymore?!?

Experiment 626 wrote:

marielle wrote:

tmarichards wrote:Waiting to see the new book would be a good start...

Indeed, very tro... uh droll... but given that the Hexwraiths are ethereal, and will no doubt be fielded in units, it is a new challenge.

Seriously?! Please don't start with the 'VCs iz gunna be suz broken!!1!!!11!' yet...
We have no idea of the cost for hexwraiths, what part of the list they'll be in, and/or if they'll be regular cav or perhaps (gasp!) 'Fast Cavalry'! (at which point they won't be a huge threat to ranked units)

Seriously! I've spent almost 2 years now having to drop 80% of my army book into the garbage can while trying to justy how my prissy & girly little Lahmians wear heavy armour and summon hordes of deranged & smelly ghouls while toting around Vlad's personal standard which Mannfred has obviously kindly 'loaned' out to my grave guard!

If anything, you'd think everyone would at least be jumping for joy that 99.9% of VC armies won't look the same anymore?!?

When did anyone mention broken?

I was simply raising the point that people are going to have to deal with ethereal units, and their thoughts on how they might do this. - beyond static combat res and crossing their fingers.

Hang on a minute....

WOOOT Vampire players have got a flexible book.... happy?

Trolls, baby!!! Magic vomit attacks ftw

Maybe Lore of Fire will see more use, since every spell in the entire lore can hurt ethereals. Might even see less lore of shadow since it does not do much to ethereals.

Of course, Firebellies will continue to see use over here on the OK side of the table.

RiTides wrote:Trolls, baby!!! Magic vomit attacks ftw

Experiment 626 wrote:Seriously?! Please don't start with the 'VCs iz gunna be suz broken!!1!!!11!' yet...
We have no idea of the cost for hexwraiths, what part of the list they'll be in, and/or if they'll be regular cav or perhaps (gasp!) 'Fast Cavalry'! (at which point they won't be a huge threat to ranked units)

Except, as Ethereal, they're a threat for ranked units in that it's unlikely they will carry a magic weapon in order to actually hit them. Ethereal Cavalry is something totally new.

Experiment 626 wrote:Seriously! I've spent almost 2 years now having to drop 80% of my army book into the garbage can while trying to justy how my prissy & girly little Lahmians wear heavy armour and summon hordes of deranged & smelly ghouls while toting around Vlad's personal standard which Mannfred has obviously kindly 'loaned' out to my grave guard!

Oh, there's plenty of ways to justify it, fluffwise. Ghouls? How about those beautiful Lahmians worked their beguiling magic on te local Ghouls to do their dirty work? Drakenhof banner? How about it's just not the Drakenhof banner, but has the same effect? Read 'What's in a name' in the magic items section of the BRB. Paint the banner to be something else. Absolutely nothing is stopping you.

Experiment 626 wrote:If anything, you'd think everyone would at least be jumping for joy that 99.9% of VC armies won't look the same anymore?!?

Oh, don't be hasty with that assumption. Once people figure out the 'optimal' units, everyones armies will look the same again.

-Loki- wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:Seriously?! Please don't start with the 'VCs iz gunna be suz broken!!1!!!11!' yet...
We have no idea of the cost for hexwraiths, what part of the list they'll be in, and/or if they'll be regular cav or perhaps (gasp!) 'Fast Cavalry'! (at which point they won't be a huge threat to ranked units)

Except, as Ethereal, they're a threat for ranked units in that it's unlikely they will carry a magic weapon in order to actually hit them. Ethereal Cavalry is something totally new.

So maybe their existance will also mean that everyone needs to start packing a cheap hero with a magic weapon in their main units now?! (if these guys break skaven out of MSU slave abuses, then that's only an improvement for the game.)

I still think it's a wee bit early to push the panic button though and decry VC's getting ethereal cav = OMG, the sky is falling!!!
If anything they'll likely be slightly weaker versions of the current cairn wraiths (just my gut feeling) And if their stats are beefy, then expect them to cost a pretty penny pts-wise, meaning you won't see big units of them. At that point, proper ranked units can just combat res them to death.

I'm betting they'll be a special unit or perhaps even a new rare choice. (which I really hope not, as our rare section is more than crowded enough as it is!)

I also wouldn't be that surprised to see vampire powers get combined back into the magic items alotment as well, which will really tone down their overall effectiveness. (no more Lv4 loremaster's who also fight on par with chaos characters!)
There's also the new magic lore to keep in mind, and the rumors that the re-casting ability is gone. (meaning it'll be alot harder to make loads of stuff get back up every turn) We already know that 'Wind of Undeath' is changed completely & no longer creates spirit hosts, and the lowest casting value that can be made out on the cards is 6+. (so no more spaming single D6 casting attempts)

Zombies are rumored to remain unchanged and only drop in pts. (a shame that one)

Skeletons get a big pts reduction.

Plus, all those most bemoaned about magic items are likely axed in the new book, so I doubt we'll see the likes of WS7/S6 regenerating grave guard who hit on 2's! (*sniff*, I'll miss the Blood Drinker and the Lahmian/Nehekaran items)



So yes, ethereal cav if it were in the current book would be godly good. But ethereal cav in the new book likely won't be nearly as nasty as what alot of people think it's going to be.

Ranked units vs. Ethereal, you simply have to buff your unit so it's hard to wound and watch the ethereal crumble away over a couple turns. You can do this with light (pha's protection, speed of light), Shadow (any), beasts (wildform), etc etc etc. Every lore has some kind of answer for ethereal, or more than one. If you're a dwarf, you bring enough combat res and your guys are already tough enough that you shouldn't need the help.

That cheap 5 point fear sword may have a use after all....

Chaos players have knights and trolls

Ogres have firebellies

Brets have grail knights

Skaven have Skaven

Beastmen get the shaft

Deamons are Deamons

Woodelves have forest spirits

Dont know about empire

Dwarves have runes

Lizardmen have Slann (this sounds familiar)

Tombkings I dunno

ONG have not much odly enough

Weren't the Black Nights in the 'old' VC book ethereal because of their steeds?

Vendetta 476 wrote:Weren't the Black Nights in the 'old' VC book ethereal because of their steeds?

The horses were classed as insubstantial steeds - they didn't have the full ethereal rule.

Lore of beats will crush the Ethereals.

I don't see ethereal being game breaking with how present magic is in the current game. Any competitive list will have a lv 4 or 2 lv2's with which to deal with their one or two units of ethereal nonsense.

That being said, I plan on restarting VC next month and I'm sure I'll be using them if they are any decent.

Skaven are chock full of magic and warpstone weapons to use against Ethereal units, so I'm not that worried. It suddenly does justify the 15 points for Warpstone Spikes on a Hellpit though...

Not to mention the abundance of champions running around with a cheap magic weapon.

Champions can have magic weapons?

(my two armies are Rats and Beasts )

I don't think those two armies have that option, but most elves armies special troops can, granted it only helps the one model deal with them. Spells are the best offense for dealing with ethereal, and it's not like it's a new rule, it's been around.

Yea it makes LoFire much more usefull in general.

Do all flaming attacks affect ethereal or just magic attacks?

If flaming does, then BoEF is something every army can take.

Aerethan wrote:I don't think those two armies have that option, but most elves armies special troops can, granted it only helps the one model deal with them. Spells are the best offense for dealing with ethereal, and it's not like it's a new rule, it's been around.

haha, sorry, that was meant to be a bit facetious I suppose. I know skaven unit champs can't have magic, although I suppose Beasts could but a magic weapon on a Mino champ.

Still, skaven have enough to shoot/throw/stab with I'm not worried there. Once again, Warp Lightning Cannons are the answer!

Does anyone even know what the stats are?
Sure they may sound scary...but they could pack hardly any punch.
If that is the case, then take them down with combat resolution like with all ghosts.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Aerethan wrote:Do all flaming attacks affect ethereal or just magic attacks?

If flaming does, then BoEF is something every army can take.

Nope has to be magical and flaming.

Which is why it's a bloody good thing I built my steg as an EotG

it has to be magic AND flaming? That doesn't sound right.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
page 68 says magic only, doesn't make any mention of flaming affecting them.

Yea just magic is good enough.

HoverBoy wrote:Yea just magic is good enough.

well it's not just good enough, it's the ONLY method of removing them besides crumbling(in the case of VC).

Aerethan wrote:it has to be magic AND flaming? That doesn't sound right.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
page 68 says magic only, doesn't make any mention of flaming affecting them.

No sorry, I wasn't clear.

In order for a flaming attack to effect them, it has to be magical as well.
Which is why I said Magic and Flaming.

Yes, a magical attack by itself can hurt ghosts.

Well, generally magic is good enough, as ghosts tend not to have that much T, W or armor.

Come to think of it, do any ethereal units have a save? I know slaan do...but only if you give them ethereal as an upgrade.

Well i still refuse to panic untill i've seen the book.