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I'm currently running a Kan Wall and have pretty good success.

Now that I've got some good games under my belt, I was thinking about getting into some tournaments.

I know I can be competitive with my Kans, but moving that many models every turn is going to be a daunting task when trying to manage time.

I also know that Battlewagon lists are common, but I don't know how common they are in tournaments as well as how competitive they are.

My FLGS runs 1750 point tournaments monthly (bi-weekly sometimes) and I've worked up a Battlewagon list for it. I have yet to buy the actual battlewagons though because I want to make sure it's going to be a wise decision.

My Proposed List:

HQ:

1x Big Mek, KFF, Grot Oiler - 90 Pts
1x Warboss, PK, Cybork, Attack Squig, Shoota/Skorcha Kombi, 'Eavy Armor - 120 Pts

Total= 210 Pts

Troops:

19x Slugga Boys, Nob w/PK - 149 Pts
20x Slugga Boys, Nob w/PK - 155 Pts
20x Slugga Boys, Nob w/PK - 155 Pts

7x Nobz, All Cybork, Painboy, PK, PK/Kombi-Skorcha, PK/Waaagh Banner, Big Choppa, Big Choppa/Kombi-Skorcha, Big Choppa/Kombi-Rokkit, Big Choppa/Kombi-Skorcha/Bosspole – 310 Pts

Total= 769 Pts

Elites:

5x Lootas - 75 Pts
5x Lootas - 75 Pts

Total= 150 Pts

Dedicated Transports:

1x Battlewagon, Deffrolla, Grot Riggers, Armor Plates, Red Paint Job, 4x Big Shoota - 155 Pts
1x Battlewagon, Deffrolla, Grot Riggers, Armor Plates, Red Paint Job, 4x Big Shoota - 155 Pts
1x Battlewagon, Deffrolla, Grot Riggers, Armor Plates, Red Paint Job, 4x Big Shoota - 155 Pts
1x Battlewagon, Deffrolla, Grot Riggers, Armor Plates, Red Paint Job, 4x Big Shoota - 155 Pts


Total= 620 Pts

Total: 1749

Any idea if this will be competitive? I foresee having to play against Deathwing as well as Eldar, Spacewolves and Grey Knights (lots of Paladins)

If you move the Battlewagons 12 inches a turn (with deffrolla you prob will) you can not shoot all 4 big shootas.

With that 60 saved points you can almost run Ghaz'killa instead of warboss.

I have seen battlewagon spams, but I have not played a tournament.. Its funny because I am thinking about playing 1750 Kan wall @ a FLGS tournament.

What is wrong with Kan Wall?

AllYourBase wrote:If you move the Battlewagons 12 inches a turn (with deffrolla you prob will) you can not shoot all 4 big shootas.

With that 60 saved points you can almost run Ghaz'killa instead of warboss.

I have seen battlewagon spams, but I have not played a tournament.. Its funny because I am thinking about playing 1750 Kan wall @ a FLGS tournament.

What is wrong with Kan Wall?

The Big Shootas are Weapon Destroyed insurance. No way (at least extremely rarely) any of them will become immobilized from weapon destroyed hits.

Kan Wall is very good IMO. But my wall can have up to around 120 models in a 1750 point game. Moving every model during the movement phase every turn is the SUCK. Especially if you have a time limit. It can be done, but I'm not that enthusiastic.

I can't imagine the horror of a 2500 point 'Ard boyz list

Yeah moving that many boyz can be the suck..
But 4x weapon destroyed insurances?
Most likely if it gets that much fire its going to get blown up. Also people love alpha striking its AV10..

AllYourBase wrote:Yeah moving that many boyz can be the suck..
But 4x weapon destroyed insurances?
Most likely if it gets that much fire its going to get blown up. Also people love alpha striking its AV10..

Exactly, with 4+ cover on your wagons moving in formation, and your opponent will almost ALWAYS be hitting your front arc (14), you really won't be taking that many results... hell, being open topped your opponent has a 50% chance of wrecking you, so why bother?

If you want 2 weapon insurances go for a kannon and big shoota, as the kannon is defensive it can shoot as well -if you slow to 6'', which you might do.
You have 4 battlewagons with kff, I am sure you'll be fine

Things that are not my own personal taste:
I would not put the warboss with the nobs as this makes one huge battlewagon target, drop another squad to 19 to take him.
I reckon you have overloaded the nobs slightly, they will always be expensive but it is worth trying to save a few points.
Leaving lootas unguarded is not for me, most deepstrike sort of units will eat them. Maybe take more and screen with grots.
Shoota boyz are probably better, being able to stay inside the battlewagon shooting 40 shots from a hull is a great option whereas 19 extra attacks may not be missed.
There are more interesting units to put in battlewagons. For example a bunch of burnas.

Deathwing, from the front they will not be able to deal with av14. However I reckon they'll deathwing assault to the side and krak missile the weak av10. That is their only hope as they are slow and they'll run out of attacks in cc.

Eldar are tricksters. To many tactics to cover. Watch out for lances and the whole redeploy skill.

I have heard of orks struggling against space wolves in cc, I haven't had this issue. I put this down to not chucking enough boys at the problem and also not knowing the ld with countercharge.

I have heard of orks struggling against paladins. Then I hear more stories of Grey knights hating orks. Paladins can give out a nice of attacks in cc and shooting however they cost a bomb to do this. Paladins are short ranged, I would invite their attack: they'll want to get within 24'' of your lootas. Kill all purifiers and stormravens straight away.

A few things first about the OP's post and a few others.

First 3 of those Battlewagons in the list are heavy support not dedicated. The only dedicated can be to the Nobz.

Another thing I saw wrong in a post was the side armour, which is 12 not 10.

I run a similar list, and my only 2 losses have come from CSM.

Also the 4 Big Shootas are overkill, I only use 1 per and have not gotten immob'd due to weapon destroyed as of yet. Plus Grot Riggers are always nice for this.

This is how I'd change up the list:

* HQ (310pts)

* Big Mek (85pts)
Choppa, Kustom Force Field

* Ghazghkull Thraka (225pts)

* Elites (375pts)

* Burna Boyz (225pts)
15x Burna Boy

* Lootas (75pts)
5x Loota

* Lootas (75pts)
5x Loota

* Troops (647pts)

* Nobz (Troops) (345pts)
Battlewagon, Painboy
* Nob
Cybork Body, Power Klaw, Slugga
* Nob
Bosspole, Cybork Body, Power Klaw, Slugga
* Nob
Cybork Body, Power Klaw, Slugga, Waagh Banner
* Nob
Choppa, Cybork Body, Slugga
* Nob
Big Choppa, Cybork Body, Slugga

* Ork Boyz (154pts)
18x Boy
* Nob
Bosspole, Power Klaw

* Ork Boyz (148pts)
17x Boy
* Nob
Bosspole, Power Klaw

* Heavy Support (405pts)

* Battlewagon (135pts)
Armour Plates, Big Shoota, Deff Rolla, Grot Riggers, Red Paint Job

* Battlewagon (135pts)
Armour Plates, Big Shoota, Deff Rolla, Grot Riggers, Red Paint Job

* Battlewagon (135pts)
Armour Plates, Big Shoota, Deff Rolla, Grot Riggers, Red Paint Job


Burnas are the answer to the things you can't kill in the assault, such as Purifiers, Genestealers, etc.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:A few things first about the OP's post and a few others.

First 3 of those Battlewagons in the list are heavy support not dedicated. The only dedicated can be to the Nobz.

Another thing I saw wrong in a post was the side armour, which is 12 not 10.

I run a similar list, and my only 2 losses have come from CSM.

Also the 4 Big Shootas are overkill, I only use 1 per and have not gotten immob'd due to weapon destroyed as of yet. Plus Grot Riggers are always nice for this.

Is the 3 Heavy support an issue? Am I doing something illegal? I will definitely remove some big shootas.

AresX8 wrote:This is how I'd change up the list:

* HQ (310pts)

* Big Mek (85pts)
Choppa, Kustom Force Field

* Ghazghkull Thraka (225pts)

* Elites (375pts)

* Burna Boyz (225pts)
15x Burna Boy

* Lootas (75pts)
5x Loota

* Lootas (75pts)
5x Loota

* Troops (647pts)

* Nobz (Troops) (345pts)
Battlewagon, Painboy
* Nob
Cybork Body, Power Klaw, Slugga
* Nob
Bosspole, Cybork Body, Power Klaw, Slugga
* Nob
Cybork Body, Power Klaw, Slugga, Waagh Banner
* Nob
Choppa, Cybork Body, Slugga
* Nob
Big Choppa, Cybork Body, Slugga

* Ork Boyz (154pts)
18x Boy
* Nob
Bosspole, Power Klaw

* Ork Boyz (148pts)
17x Boy
* Nob
Bosspole, Power Klaw

* Heavy Support (405pts)

* Battlewagon (135pts)
Armour Plates, Big Shoota, Deff Rolla, Grot Riggers, Red Paint Job

* Battlewagon (135pts)
Armour Plates, Big Shoota, Deff Rolla, Grot Riggers, Red Paint Job

* Battlewagon (135pts)
Armour Plates, Big Shoota, Deff Rolla, Grot Riggers, Red Paint Job


Burnas are the answer to the things you can't kill in the assault, such as Purifiers, Genestealers, etc.

Is that going to be enough boyz? I agree on the burnas, I just didn't have the points to add them with the amount of boyz I was taking.

AllYourBase wrote:Yeah moving that many boyz can be the suck..
But 4x weapon destroyed insurances?
Most likely if it gets that much fire its going to get blown up. Also people love alpha striking its AV10..

Good point. I'll have to remove some!

MFletch wrote:If you want 2 weapon insurances go for a kannon and big shoota, as the kannon is defensive it can shoot as well -if you slow to 6'', which you might do.
You have 4 battlewagons with kff, I am sure you'll be fine

Things that are not my own personal taste:
I would not put the warboss with the nobs as this makes one huge battlewagon target, drop another squad to 19 to take him.
I reckon you have overloaded the nobs slightly, they will always be expensive but it is worth trying to save a few points.
Leaving lootas unguarded is not for me, most deepstrike sort of units will eat them. Maybe take more and screen with grots.
Shoota boyz are probably better, being able to stay inside the battlewagon shooting 40 shots from a hull is a great option whereas 19 extra attacks may not be missed.
There are more interesting units to put in battlewagons. For example a bunch of burnas.

Deathwing, from the front they will not be able to deal with av14. However I reckon they'll deathwing assault to the side and krak missile the weak av10. That is their only hope as they are slow and they'll run out of attacks in cc.

Eldar are tricksters. To many tactics to cover. Watch out for lances and the whole redeploy skill.

I have heard of orks struggling against space wolves in cc, I haven't had this issue. I put this down to not chucking enough boys at the problem and also not knowing the ld with countercharge.

I have heard of orks struggling against paladins. Then I hear more stories of Grey knights hating orks. Paladins can give out a nice of attacks in cc and shooting however they cost a bomb to do this. Paladins are short ranged, I would invite their attack: they'll want to get within 24'' of your lootas. Kill all purifiers and stormravens straight away.

The reason for the slugga boyz is that with Ghazghkull (I'll probably be getting him soon now), on the Waaagh! I can get up to a 27" assault in the second turn.

I was certainly thinking about getting some Grots, if not for protection, at least as another coring unit.

As for the burnas, see above.

I am aware of the av of a battlewagon. I said the y could assault to the side not from a side.
I was referring to teleporting to the side of the army, thus reducing mishaps and not letting themselves get overrun by an assault and at the back. To the side was clear and that I was landing behind some battlewagons was clear as I mentioned av10.

Dedicated transport is just a name, we all know what he meant. I am sure he will play them as heavy choices when the rules matter.

I don't think Ghaz. isn't really going to be worth his points compared to a warboss for you. His points could be spent on lootas which would be worth more to you.
Still take him he is cool.

MFletch wrote:I am aware of the av of a battlewagon. I said the y could assault to the side not from a side.
I was referring to teleporting to the side of the army, thus reducing mishaps and not letting themselves get overrun by an assault and at the back. To the side was clear and that I was landing behind some battlewagons was clear as I mentioned av10.

Dedicated transport is just a name, we all know what he meant. I am sure he will play them as heavy choices when the rules matter.

I don't think Ghaz. isn't really going to be worth his points compared to a warboss for you. His points could be spent on lootas which would be worth more to you.
Still take him he is cool.

Side with Krak missiles sounds like shooting side armour to me, but each their own.

Dedicated transports is just a name, as is Heavy Support. However Rules is just a word, yet how the game must be played.

I agree with Ghaz, I love the big boss however under 2000 pts I won't even try to field the big guy.

Eternal warrior of Ghaz can be a savior if you have to fight a DCCW.

Watch out for drop lists, anything behind you = blown up BW. Also Blasts only need to hit AV12 not 14 so IG can be a problem too.

AllYourBase wrote:Eternal warrior of Ghaz can be a savior if you have to fight a DCCW.

Watch out for drop lists, anything behind you = blown up BW. Also Blasts only need to hit AV12 not 14 so IG can be a problem too.

Barrage will hit the AV 12, standard Ordnance will hit AV14.

Yes EW is nice but at what point cost? I just send Deffrollas at walkers, if that fails I'll send a 12 man squad nob/klaw if necessary

Well, for now, I have to use the boss since I don't have Ghazzy yet. If the trade I have pending goes through quickly, I'll have Ghazzy. At which point I'll be too excited to not use him.

There's also the fear that if I bench him, he'll krump me while I sleep.

I am not saying Ghaz is needed and you dont run him just for EW

You can separate Ghaz from your Nobz squad and attack 2 different things and be OK. He is hard to hit and hard to kill

I love BW's!! I run 4 at 2000pt, and 5 at 2500pt....and I do well with it.
I agree with people 4 big shootas is kinda silly, take boarding planks instead because they are not silly. You wouldn't believe how many tanks, I have killed with this. And it works against dreadnaughts as well.
Here is how I typically run a BW
Battlewagon: 140pt
deff rolla
grots
red
big shoota
Armour Plates
Boarding plank

I would take less PK in your Nobz(two is prolly a good number for 7, I take 3 with 9) unit, take one or two more big choppas and try to go to 8 nobz.
I would recommend putting your WB or Ghazz with some boys aswell, mostly because this makes your opponents target priority harder, and because that unit will be as dangerous as your nob squad.
Think about a squad of burnas, there are advantages and disadvantages(mainly one less troop) to it. I would not take more then 10; and use the templates not the power weapons.
Last I do not agree that you should be taking shoota boyz instead of sluggas. A BW list is really meant for the 27" charge, not for driving around and shooting at stuff (you will loose if you spend too much time doing that).
I have always done better with BW then I ever have with any kind of green tide/kan wall