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An interesting thought occurred to me as I was coming up with a theoretical Necron Royalstar list - do the effects of Mindshackle Scarabs stack on a single unit (such as a Monstrous Creature or special character)? If so, in what way do they stack?

Theories:

1) Multiple successful MSS attacks (meaning the unit failed its Leadership 'save') lead to extra hits from the affected unit - 2D3, 3D3, 4D3, and so on.
2) Multiple MSS attacks do not lead to extra hits, merely provide more chances for success (as more Leadership 'saves' must be made).
3) Multiple MSS attacks do not lead to extra hits, merely provide a better chance of success (as more dice are added to the Leadership 'save' - 6D6, 9D6, 12D6 seems to be the logical progression here, although it could easily be 4D6, 5D6, 6D6).
4) Multiple MSS attacks do not stack in any way - when possible, MSS attacks must be made against different units or the effects are lost.

Judging from the verbiage in the Necron 'Dex (page 81), I'm inclined to think the first theory is the correct one. What does Dakka say?

First one. While it says "instead of attacking normally", it does not require you to be able to attack normally. However, a model explicitly prohibited from attacking (like a Character with a rebelling Daemon Weapon) would not attack under the influence of Scarabs.

I'd disagree with that. I'd go with the 2nd one - once you hit yourself, you can't swap your attacks for more hits...

Not at all sure here, but I'd lean toward #2. I would think once you are shackled, you are no longer "attacking normally." Your regular attack can only be exchanged for the D3 hits once, so additional shackles will have no effect.

Jidmah wrote:However, a model explicitly prohibited from attacking (like a Character with a rebelling Daemon Weapon) would not attack under the influence of Scarabs.

MSS trigger before any blows are struck, so I don't think a Daemon Weapon would bother them any. But yeah, someone disallowed to attack for whatever reason would be immune.

I vote #2 as well, that's how we play it here. Ruleswise, you can only trade your normal attacks once. Fluffwise, once you're mindshackled, you can't be mindshackled again because you're already under the necron lord's control.

whigwam wrote:Not at all sure here, but I'd lean toward #2. I would think once you are shackled, you are no longer "attacking normally." Your regular attack can only be exchanged for the D3 hits once, so additional shackles will have no effect.

Jidmah wrote:However, a model explicitly prohibited from attacking (like a Character with a rebelling Daemon Weapon) would not attack under the influence of Scarabs.

MSS trigger before any blows are struck, so I don't think a Daemon Weapon would bother them any. But yeah, someone disallowed to attack for whatever reason would be immune.

You roll for demon weapons "whenever the model is about to attack", without having the new necron codex ready to double-check, mind-scarab'ed models still attack.

Multiple MSS on one model have no stack effect, you just have to take more tests; A failed test (of X) will lead to D3 hits

Multiple mss on the same model will only do anything if they pass their first test. You can't "instead of attacking normally" more than once. However, you can use multiple MSS on different models in the same unit with no problem with the current RAW.

The model is selected at random, and you may only pick units in base contact. So double-picking won't be that rare for a court or even an IC attached to a squad with a lord.

I would imagine either theory 1 or theory 2 to be correct, I'm leaning towards theory 1, because the monstrous creature or whatever would be taking all of the leadership tests in the same initiative step and therefore simultaneously, so it can't be "already shackled", imo.

I'd say #2 is the most likely because you'd have multiple attempt to shackle the model. If it was shackled by the first try then the next model wouldn't try to shackle it again.

Scarey Nerd wrote:I would imagine either theory 1 or theory 2 to be correct, I'm leaning towards theory 1, because the monstrous creature or whatever would be taking all of the leadership tests in the same initiative step and therefore simultaneously, so it can't be "already shackled", imo.

you take the Ld tests at "The beginning of the assault phase" then if you are shackled you do d3 hits to your unit instead of attacking normally so I think you just get your D3 hits. I do however think you have to pass the Ld test twice.

Jidmah wrote:

whigwam wrote:Not at all sure here, but I'd lean toward #2. I would think once you are shackled, you are no longer "attacking normally." Your regular attack can only be exchanged for the D3 hits once, so additional shackles will have no effect.

Jidmah wrote:However, a model explicitly prohibited from attacking (like a Character with a rebelling Daemon Weapon) would not attack under the influence of Scarabs.

MSS trigger before any blows are struck, so I don't think a Daemon Weapon would bother them any. But yeah, someone disallowed to attack for whatever reason would be immune.

You roll for demon weapons "whenever the model is about to attack", without having the new necron codex ready to double-check, mind-scarab'ed models still attack.

They don't. If they fail the LD check they inflict d3 automatic hits on their own unit instead of attacking normally. These are auto-hits, not attacks.

models can only attack once so it would not stack. And i believe it also says randomly choose so unless hes the only man in the squad its not likley and if he its its just overkill to make sure hes going to attack others and not you.

Models A & B hit a demon prince with MSS. Demon passes one 'save' (from MSS set A) but fails the second (MSS set B) Demon punches itself in the face D3 times so opponent rolls to wound himself as they are auto-hit