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Slarg232 wrote:I have a question for all non-beleivers: Why is it that when someone dies, everyone close to them seems to have the same sort of dream of them, always in a happy place and being very content? This sort of thing happens all the time, especially with close family members.

I could see if it was just one or two people, and just once or twice, but this sort of thing happens all the freakin time.....

I've never, ever heard of this...

I've heard of it, a few times, via my dad's parishioners. Its one of those things people tend to echo on hearing.

"I voted for X!"

"Errr...so did I!"

Man i missed a lot here...

dogma wrote:

Blackskullandy wrote:Or even which bits to apply and which to ignore?

Which ones do you like?

I don't trust any of them as far as i could throw them
I'm more likely to follow Ancient Astronaut theory than any religion or specific gospel... The book of enoch has some interesting stuff in it though.

...The book of enoch has some interesting stuff in it though.

Agreed! Thats an interesting study regardless of what you believe

As a preparation for my oral exam, I asked three students (a muslim, a christians, and a hindu) how they read their respective religious texts. All their answers basically boiled down to this: Through metaphors, the

texts establish various moral and ethical laws on how to treat other people, and how to become a better person. Although the study only included three guys, it was still interesting

Slarg232 wrote:I have a question for all non-beleivers: Why is it that when someone dies, everyone close to them seems to have the same sort of dream of them, always in a happy place and being very content? This sort of thing happens all the time, especially with close family members.

I could see if it was just one or two people, and just once or twice, but this sort of thing happens all the freakin time.....

I had a dream I was having sex with Marilyn Monroe and I woke up all of a pother.

Does that show that heaven exists?

No but it does prove the existence of Hell if the wife hears about it. remember, just because its a dream doersn't mean the Wife won't drop a provolone beatdown on you!

Frazzled wrote:No but it does prove the existence of Hell if the wife hears about it. remember, just because its a dream doersn't mean the Wife won't drop a provolone beatdown on you!

I don't see why we have to bring delicious cheeses into this.

Belinda Carlisle says that Heaven is a Place on Earth.

Monster Rain wrote:Belinda Carlisle says that Heaven is a Place on Earth.

Well Janis Joplin said freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose and she'd kcik Belinda Carlisle's ass (or more properly puke all over her).

Oh Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz ?
My friends all drive Porsches, I must make amends.
Worked hard all my lifetime, no help from my friends,
So Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz ?

Oh Lord, won't you buy me a color TV ?
Dialing For Dollars is trying to find me.
I wait for delivery each day until three,
So oh Lord, won't you buy me a color TV ?

Oh Lord, won't you buy me a night on the town ?
I'm counting on you, Lord, please don't let me down.
Prove that you love me and buy the next round,
Oh Lord, won't you buy me a night on the town ?

Everybody!
Oh Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz ?
My friends all drive Porsches, I must make amends,
Worked hard all my lifetime, no help from my friends,
So oh Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz ?

Terje-Tubby wrote:As a preparation for my oral exam, I asked three students (a muslim, a christians, and a hindu) how they read their respective religious texts. All their answers basically boiled down to this: Through metaphors, the

texts establish various moral and ethical laws on how to treat other people, and how to become a better person. Although the study only included three guys, it was still interesting

Morals like animal sacrafice? please show me morals that exist in the book that aren't directly contradicted on a different page in the same book....

frgsinwntr wrote:

Terje-Tubby wrote:As a preparation for my oral exam, I asked three students (a muslim, a christians, and a hindu) how they read their respective religious texts. All their answers basically boiled down to this: Through metaphors, the

texts establish various moral and ethical laws on how to treat other people, and how to become a better person. Although the study only included three guys, it was still interesting

Morals like animal sacrafice? please show me morals that exist in the book that aren't directly contradicted on a different page in the same book....

Yeah, because only religious things, and not things law laws, would have contradictions in them. Contradiction means immoral and proof of no religious truth!

Kilkrazy wrote:

Slarg232 wrote:I have a question for all non-beleivers: Why is it that when someone dies, everyone close to them seems to have the same sort of dream of them, always in a happy place and being very content? This sort of thing happens all the time, especially with close family members.

I could see if it was just one or two people, and just once or twice, but this sort of thing happens all the freakin time.....

I had a dream I was having sex with Marilyn Monroe and I woke up all of a pother.

Does that show that heaven exists?

No, but that's totally different.

If a family member dies, and everyone in the family has the exact same dream of that person, as happy as can be, how does that not at least give heaven the potential of existing?

Slarg232 wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:

Slarg232 wrote:I have a question for all non-beleivers: Why is it that when someone dies, everyone close to them seems to have the same sort of dream of them, always in a happy place and being very content? This sort of thing happens all the time, especially with close family members.

I could see if it was just one or two people, and just once or twice, but this sort of thing happens all the freakin time.....

I had a dream I was having sex with Marilyn Monroe and I woke up all of a pother.

Does that show that heaven exists?

No, but that's totally different.

If a family member dies, and everyone in the family has the exact same dream of that person, as happy as can be, how does that not at least give heaven the potential of existing?

I am so flabbergasted at this that I don't know how to respond. It is such an amazing statement to make that I can't tell if we are being toyed with or if it is genuine.

Genuine, to tell the truth.

Slarg232 wrote:
If a family member dies, and everyone in the family has the exact same dream of that person, as happy as can be, how does that not at least give heaven the potential of existing?

Guinea pigs, the world's most ridiculously unsurvivable animal, exist therefore heaven has the potential to exist. You can claim that any single thing X exists therefore any other single thing Y, unless it can be shown that Y cannot or does not exist, has the potential to exist because you have established the existence of existence.

That bit of logic aside, I'm interested in how you prove every relevant person had exactly the same dream. Certainly not by their word, so this must be some impressive neuroscience.

Slarg232 wrote:Genuine, to tell the truth.

If you were having a go at us why would I believe this?

I have to admit that using group think as proof of heaven is certainly a new approach. Since we can't see what people visualize in there dreams their is no way to know that people have the 'exact same' dream.

dogma wrote:

Slarg232 wrote:
If a family member dies, and everyone in the family has the exact same dream of that person, as happy as can be, how does that not at least give heaven the potential of existing?

Guinea pigs, the world's most ridiculously unsurvivable animal, exist therefore heaven has the potential to exist. You can claim that any single thing X exists therefore any other single thing Y, unless it can be shown that Y cannot or does not exist, has the potential to exist because you have established the existence of existence.

That bit of logic aside, I'm interested in how you prove every relevant person had exactly the same dream.

You can not claim that any single thing X exists therefore Y exists, but how do you explain this happening if not some form of afterlife?

Ahtman wrote:

Slarg232 wrote:Genuine, to tell the truth.

If you were having a go at us why would I believe this?

I have to admit that using group think as proof of heaven is certainly a new approach. Since we can't see what people visualize in there dreams their is no way to know that people have the 'exact same' dream.

The first part is up to you to decide. Though I admit that the second part is true.

I for one have never even heard of people dying and the entire family (how does this work by the way? I mean going on a biblical sense everyone is descended from adam and eve thus surely when anyone dies everyone must have a dream about it) having a dream about that person being happy, I for one have had many deaths in the family and have never dreamt about them...

Slarg232 wrote:
You can not claim that any single thing X exists therefore Y exists,

I didn't say therefore Y exists I said therefore Y has the potential to exist, its an important difference.

Slarg232 wrote:
but how do you explain this happening if not some form of afterlife?

I gave you an answer above, but an easier answer is simply that people lie, all the time. The canon example is how people lie regarding voting behavior. In America we get about 50-60% voter turnout in Presidential elections, but about 80% of any given survey response group will claim to have voted. This indicates one, or both, of two things, people lie about things they believe they should have done or experienced, and that people who voted may be more likely to take a survey.

Slarg232 wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:

Slarg232 wrote:I have a question for all non-beleivers: Why is it that when someone dies, everyone close to them seems to have the same sort of dream of them, always in a happy place and being very content? This sort of thing happens all the time, especially with close family members.

I could see if it was just one or two people, and just once or twice, but this sort of thing happens all the freakin time.....

I had a dream I was having sex with Marilyn Monroe and I woke up all of a pother.

Does that show that heaven exists?

No, but that's totally different.

If a family member dies, and everyone in the family has the exact same dream of that person, as happy as can be, how does that not at least give heaven the potential of existing?

I've never heard of that happening.

dogma wrote:I gave you an answer above, but an easier answer is simply that people lie, all the time. The canon example is how people lie regarding voting behavior. In America we get about 50-60% voter turnout in Presidential elections, but about 80% of any given survey response group will claim to have voted. This indicates one, or both, of two things, people lie about things they believe they should have done or experienced, and that people who voted may be more likely to take a survey.

...or there's an underreported amount of fraud.

just sayin'.

It could indicate that all the family members had a similar dream, due to the strong emotional events they had recently experienced as a group.

It could indicate that the family was a bunch of liars.

Reminds of a recent study that showed people lie about what movies they seen. Roughly 30% of the people asked said they had seen The Godfather when they hadn't.

Were they lying on purpose or did they actually think they had seen it just through all the pop-culture references to it and whatnot?

Monster Rain wrote:Were they lying on purpose or did they actually think they had seen it just through all the pop-culture references to it and whatnot?

The former for the most part. Linky linky

Thank you!

frgsinwntr wrote:

Terje-Tubby wrote:As a preparation for my oral exam, I asked three students (a muslim, a christians, and a hindu) how they read their respective religious texts. All their answers basically boiled down to this: Through metaphors, the

texts establish various moral and ethical laws on how to treat other people, and how to become a better person. Although the study only included three guys, it was still interesting

Morals like animal sacrafice? please show me morals that exist in the book that aren't directly contradicted on a different page in the same book....

Probably moral stories within the same chapter. The thing with the Bible that a lot of people don't think about is that Jesus wasn't always the Jesus we think of, he used to be angry and spiteful but became more peaceful and like what we should try to be. It wasn't till the end that he was the really chill guy that most churches focus on. There's also a lot of interpretation in the Bible, like any religious text. The there's the fact that Old Testament and New Testament are mixed into the Bible.

Well new job keeps me away from wonderful threads like this...

I made it 6 pages through before dejavu set in.

To the OP. Hawkings comment was offensive, because he compared religious belief to childrens fantasy. "fairy tales". I.E.. he marginalized peoples beliefs when he has his own beliefs.

This whole question of "Why is it wrong to be disrespectful to Christians?" I mean really...is this question being asked with a straight face? There is nothing wrong with questioning or having doubts or even really, really, really, believing that the Bible is a myth. And I would say that there is nothing wrong with expressing this unbelief to a believer. The problem arises when the expression of unbelief crosses a line from respectful debate/exchange of of ideas, to mockery.

The problem with mockery, is that mockery is based on a system of beliefs itself and therefore in and of itself is hypocritical.

GG

Generalgrog-You believe that being respectful of people beliefs comes above peoples right to say what they think- Not everyone agrees.

I find it insulting when i'm told i'm going to hell but they have the right to thing and say that. I'll just ignore them and think less of them- people should do the same here

I'm sorry but people don't have to be nice to you, if they are thats good but it won't always happen. It's just life.