Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I think this rule is just to bridge the gap between codex release.
Yeah I guess you can replace the power weapon with whatever you want but I get the feeling they inteded it as "Look at what the model originally had and use the stats from the list".

So Djinn Blade is a power weapon that grants 2 extra attacks....I am intended to use powersword stats not say its a Djinn Axe.
Agoniser or Electrocorrosive whip, god knows what profile I choose for them since its a whip.

Its all subjective though so no-one can really answer it. My gut feeling though is that you look at what the original codex allowed you to have and than base your choice upon the default model design.

Restricting yourself to the original codex wording doesn't make sense - the codex was changed to power weapon. There's no reason the cant just leave it at power sword.

DevianID wrote:Shandara, while you are not technically wrong that all the combos are WYSIWYG, that doesnt make it right... which was my point. After all, I get to see the models you are using when they are off the table, and if you pull out a tray of 50 different combos of DCA to represent a single unit of 10, with the express intent of using the best ones of those 50 depending on what units are outside the rhino when you disembark, I (and I expect others) will be calling that unfair modeling for advantage.

Now, if you told me when we started what they had and didnt change mid game, I would consider that more fair.

Most fair I think would be to not have 50 DCA that you pick from at the start of each game depending on who you are playing.

Eh. You select the type of weapons they have when you write the army list. Same as with everything else.

mishka_shaw wrote:So Djinn Blade is a power weapon that grants 2 extra attacks....I am intended to use powersword stats not say its a Djinn Axe.

You intend to not follow the correct rules?

Agoniser or Electrocorrosive whip, god knows what profile I choose for them since its a whip.

I know what profile you choose for them. So does most other posters in this thread.

Why don't you have a Look at Unusual Power weapons. It is on the same page as Power weapons, as a sub-entry.

SO yes; Djinn Blades have no models(bitz), and for all the rules care you can have the Djinn blade represented via your Archon carrying a battle cannon in his hand(or less extreme "form matters not", you could have 1 carrying an Axe, and another with a spear); but the rules are already crystal clear that you follow the profile for Unusual power weapons and apply the special rules of the weapon.

Common consensus also seems to be that you can use a battle cannon as a power maul. It is a blunt object.

Jidmah wrote:Common consensus also seems to be that you can use a battle cannon as a power maul. It is a blunt object.

Interesting straw man. Could you quote the statements in this thread that caused you to assume something so ludicrous?

For one, a battle cannon has a specific 40k function. That function isn't a power maul.
For two, I don't know of any model that is permitted to have a battle cannon and a power weapon.
For three, are you seriously saying that a model like... A Warboss (no idea if they're allowed power weapons or not - but go with this for now) wielding a battle cannon barrel attached to some car batteries (executed well) would be illegal?

Shandara, while you are not technically wrong that all the combos are WYSIWYG, that doesnt make it right...

Not technically wrong is right in a boolean situation like this. The rules allow what he posited. No rule backs or disallows MFA in any way.

Since djinn blad is an unusual pw, it counts as a sword.

pretre wrote:Since djinn blad is an unusual pw, it counts as a sword.

No, it counts as an unusual power weapon.

Which is ap3. You can't have a djinn axe.

pretre wrote:Which is ap3. You can't have a djinn axe.

Sure. But it there ARE rules for unusual power weapons which are what show that. They are different rules (not talking stats) than rules for power swords in general.
I was nitpicking, not disagreeing.

Jidmah: Yes absolutely. If you have a model that can take a Power weapon, you can model a Battle cannon in it's hand and declare that to be its power maul.

Pretre: by rules. You cannot have a Djinn Axe by rules; but your Djinn blade is more than welcome to take the form of an Axe.

Kommissar Kel wrote:Jidmah: Yes absolutely. If you have a model that can take a Power weapon, you can model a Battle cannon in it's hand and declare that to be its power maul.

Awesome. Not only do I agree, but it reminds me of some interesting stories. . . .

"Drive me closer, so I can rip the battle cannon of this tank and beat them with it!"

Crimson wrote:[
Eh. You select the type of weapons they have when you write the army list. Same as with everything else.

You select a 'power weapon' as an option you buy when you write your army list. Determining what type it is is done when you 'look down at the model' when it's on the table.

Shandara wrote:

Crimson wrote:[
Eh. You select the type of weapons they have when you write the army list. Same as with everything else.

You select a 'power weapon' as an option you buy when you write your army list. Determining what type it is is done when you 'look down at the model' when it's on the table.

You USED to select power weapon. The rules have changed since that was true, however.
Now that is simply a category. Like saying you selected Troops.

No Shandara is close to correct.

You select a "Power weapon" when building your Army list(you have no specific options for the individual types in the Codex; so you default to the BRB rules of "base on what the model is carrying).

Determining what type of power weapon you have is now done during Model construction or Purchase.

For Example, I also Play Space Wolves; My Wolf Pack Sprues come with 2 different Power weapons: an Axe and a Sword. When I am buying a Power weapon for my Grey hunters I can either put the Axe or the Sword bit on the model. Whichever Bit I use determines which "Power Weapon" I have chosen for my grey hunter pack.

Kommissar Kel wrote:Shandara is close to correct.
. . .
Whichever Bit I use determines which "Power Weapon" I have chosen for my grey hunter pack.

Yes, exactly.
Nothing allows you to change models during the game, and I have never seen a tourney that allows lists (and thus models) to change between games.
Changing models is changing lists, even if its just because a name is different.

editing to add:
And if you are allowed to change lists, it's irrelevant anyway.
Also, the Troops example is probably bad.
heh

Jidmah

Common consensus also seems to be that you can use a battle cannon as a power maul. It is a blunt object.

If your Battle Cannon changes the physical dimensions of the model in order to exploit the gameboard (i.e. LOS Blocking) you are MFA (did i not explain this earlier?)

equipping a model that already has a power weapon (DCA) with a similar sized weapon that has an equipped difference rather than a physical difference appearently is fine.

your confusing MFA for "Equipping for Advantage".

Jidmah, you need to look to GW for answers regarding axe/sword "exploit" because its the rules set you seem to have a problem with. Not the modeling aspect.

RegulusBlack wrote:

Jidmah

Common consensus also seems to be that you can use a battle cannon as a power maul. It is a blunt object.

If your Battle Cannon changes the physical dimensions of the model in order to exploit the gameboard (i.e. LOS Blocking) you are MFA (did i not explain this earlier?)

equipping a model that already has a power weapon (DCA) with a similar sized weapon that has an equipped difference rather than a physical difference appearently is fine.

your confusing MFA for "Equipping for Advantage".

Jidmah, you need to look to GW for answers regarding axe/sword "exploit" because its the rules set you seem to have a problem with. Not the modeling aspect.

Weapons don't count for LOS; so your argument/Exception is invalid

RegulusBlack wrote:your confusing MFA for "Equipping for Advantage".

Yes, well said! The wording for power weapons is a bit odd, but it really just boils down to choosing equipment. The rules for special marine weapons could have been written in a similar way ("look at the model to see which 'special' weapon it has, flamer, melta or plasma"). It is really and truly just a legal equipment choice.

Shandara wrote:You select a 'power weapon' as an option you buy when you write your army list. Determining what type it is is done when you 'look down at the model' when it's on the table.

This... may be technically true right right now. However, unless you want to be thought of as TFG, I reckon folks will actually write down which power weapons their dudes have in their army list, or at the very least inform the opponent of the types of power weapons well before the game starts.

?? I'm confused what are you trying to tell me, that if i used a Land Raider as my "Power Maul" that it will not block line of site or intervene on models behind it? (which was Jidmah's statement earlier).

My argument/exception is that replacing wargear has to

A : be a game legal option
B : be of similar shape/size/dimensions as the item your replacing so that you cannot be MFA
C : yeah thats pretty much it.

(this is in response to Kel)

I have a question relating to this thread if anyone can help. I have a few unit of Sanguinary Guard that I made a while back for my Red Hunters army. I modeled them with Halberds instead of the usual weapons to fit in with my army theme. With these new rules will my Glaive Encarmine (defined as a two handed master crafted power weapon) count as Unusual Power Weapons or will they count as Halberd/Axes? Am I free to call them either as long as it's specified on the army list? Thanks for any help (it's a big ass book).

Good question. I think there is a thread somewhere dealing with whether or not "mastercrafted" makes the power weapon unusual. I don't remember the answer, if there was one.

The BRB talks about 'unusual' weapons having their own 'unique' CC rules.... whatever that means.

RegulusBlack wrote:?? I'm confused what are you trying to tell me, that if i used a Land Raider as my "Power Maul" that it will not block line of site or intervene on models behind it? (which was Jidmah's statement earlier).

My argument/exception is that replacing wargear has to

A : be a game legal option
B : be of similar shape/size/dimensions as the item your replacing so that you cannot be MFA
C : yeah thats pretty much it.

(this is in response to Kel)

Yes, that is exactly what I am Saying; you ignore weapons Banners and Etc on models for Determining LOS.

I really do not care if you model an entire second 48"x72" table in a Models hand as his Power weapon, said second table does not block LOS and is to be ignored for determining LOS.

BladeWalker wrote:I have a question relating to this thread if anyone can help. I have a few unit of Sanguinary Guard that I made a while back for my Red Hunters army. I modeled them with Halberds instead of the usual weapons to fit in with my army theme. With these new rules will my Glaive Encarmine (defined as a two handed master crafted power weapon) count as Unusual Power Weapons or will they count as Halberd/Axes? Am I free to call them either as long as it's specified on the army list? Thanks for any help (it's a big ass book).

I think the "2-handed" part would make them Unusual/Unique power weapons.

Yeah. The problem is that the rulebook states this:

"Types of Power Weapons"

"If a model's wargear says it has a power weapon which has no further special rules, look at the model to tell which type of power weapon it has"

And Master-crafted is a special rule. But it also states this:

"Unusual Power Weapons"

"If a power weapon has its own unique close combat rules, treat it as an AP 3 Melee weapon with the additional rules and characteristics presented in its entry."

(Page 61)

Those are your options. The problem is that only if the power weapon does not have a special rule do you look at the model to determine the type, and only if it has unique rules is it AP 3 with those further unique rules applied. Strictly speaking there's just no room to determine what type a generic power weapon is if it does have a special (but non-unique) rule like Master-crafted.

Slinky wrote:

BladeWalker wrote:I have a question relating to this thread if anyone can help. I have a few unit of Sanguinary Guard that I made a while back for my Red Hunters army. I modeled them with Halberds instead of the usual weapons to fit in with my army theme. With these new rules will my Glaive Encarmine (defined as a two handed master crafted power weapon) count as Unusual Power Weapons or will they count as Halberd/Axes? Am I free to call them either as long as it's specified on the army list? Thanks for any help (it's a big ass book).

I think the "2-handed" part would make them Unusual/Unique power weapons.

I don't think so.


The rules for Unusual Power Weapons means that they if have their own unique rules yadda yadda. 2 handed is not a unique rule, its a USR found in the main rule book. As is Master Crafted, Shred, Specialist weapon...


The Nemisis Halberd's +2I bonus would be a unique special rule, Master Crafted/Two handed is not.

So the Sang Guard would be armed with Master Crafted Two Handed Axes.

Grey Templar wrote:

Slinky wrote:

BladeWalker wrote:I have a question relating to this thread if anyone can help. I have a few unit of Sanguinary Guard that I made a while back for my Red Hunters army. I modeled them with Halberds instead of the usual weapons to fit in with my army theme. With these new rules will my Glaive Encarmine (defined as a two handed master crafted power weapon) count as Unusual Power Weapons or will they count as Halberd/Axes? Am I free to call them either as long as it's specified on the army list? Thanks for any help (it's a big ass book).

I think the "2-handed" part would make them Unusual/Unique power weapons.

I don't think so.


The rules for Unusual Power Weapons means that they if have their own unique rules yadda yadda. 2 handed is not a unique rule, its a USR found in the main rule book. As is Master Crafted, Shred, Specialist weapon...


The Nemisis Halberd's +2I bonus would be a unique special rule, Master Crafted/Two handed is not.

So the Sang Guard would be armed with Master Crafted Two Handed Axes.

This was close to my thought process. I did not think that two handed or mc made them unique.

Edit: sorry for minor derail, but I thought this example was relevant to the discussion here. thanks!

Edit Again: Found this thread for others looking for BA PW discussion: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/458860.page

This train went off the rails a long time ago, so I think it's fine.

rigeld2 wrote:

Jidmah wrote:Common consensus also seems to be that you can use a battle cannon as a power maul. It is a blunt object.

Interesting straw man. Could you quote the statements in this thread that caused you to assume something so ludicrous?

For one, a battle cannon has a specific 40k function. That function isn't a power maul.
For two, I don't know of any model that is permitted to have a battle cannon and a power weapon.
For three, are you seriously saying that a model like... A Warboss (no idea if they're allowed power weapons or not - but go with this for now) wielding a battle cannon barrel attached to some car batteries (executed well) would be illegal?

I was merely stating the common consensus, not agreeing nor disagreeing with it in any way. I was also making a joke.