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**Davor**

infinite_array wrote:

@Davor - Don't be a pedant.

I asked a simple question. We as geeks and nerds have a bad reputation for arguing and never discussing anything with plastic toy soldiers, so was curious why you would think it's arguing. Why not answer instead of deflecting with fancy words? Yes I had to look it up.

Guess I am being otiose.

**RiTides**

MongooseMatt wrote:
I have a little sideline in GW retail, and AoS has exploded Fantasy sales. Drips and drabs before, regular turnover now. And, here's the thing - those sales are increasing in pace, not slowing down. We are seeing more people (re)turning to AoS, and we are seeing them spending more when they do.

MongooseMatt - I didn't realize you work part-time at a GW! It makes sense to me that GW's retail outlets are selling their new AoS models well compared to latter-stage fantasy. I've been into a GW twice since it was released (once to actually buy the AoS dwarf character!) and they were really pushing it hard! Like, barely avoided having the manager (who is my friend) tie me down for a demo game hard

**MongooseMatt**

RiTides wrote:

MongooseMatt - I didn't realize you work part-time at a GW! Also explains the enthusiasm level a bit, if I'm honest (not the fact that you like the game, mind, just the "e-level" ).

I don't work for GW ;-)

**RiTides**

Apologies, I actually edited out that bit as I thought it was unnecessary (your enthusiasm is likely just your personality

I mean that genuinely!).

I don't quite follow - do you mean you work in a retail outlet that isn't an official GW? I saw this follow-up and you seemed to be referring to sales figures that you've experienced personally at the store you were referencing:

MongooseMatt wrote:
Herzlos wrote:
Can you elaborate on what's selling well?

The new releases always do well (the Fyreslayers blew through), and both Khorne and Stormcasts seem to be evergreens.

There are some oddities that are interesting. Space Marine Tactical Squads always do well, so we loaded up on Liberators - and took a long time to sell through on them, though Judicatiors, Paladins, etc, do very well. We took on lots of Liberators because they are the 'core' troop for Stormcasts. But, of course, you get two units in the starter set, and there is no Troops requirement forcing you to get more...

The other oddity - books. This may be a case of people getting them locally on day of release (because they cannot wait to read and plan their model purchases) but I cannot back that up. We sell proportionally less AoS books than 40k, though I would not read too much into that. Our Fyreslayer books disappeared within hours, the last copy of Quest for Ghal Maraz is still sitting on the shelf.

The Dreadhold stock sold slowly, but it did sell. Which is probably obvious. That said, the Dreadhold Battletome is still in stock too.

However, compared to Fantasy sales pre-AoS (the occasional unit box set selling), it is chalk and cheese. AoS probably accounts for 30-40% of our sales, depending on what is released any given week.

Edit: Ah, did a quick google and it looks as if Mongoose just sells some GW on the side at their HQ. Makes sense, of course! Sorry if this was obvious, should have been from your username

**thekingofkings**

What I am seeing just judging from the forums I go to: European players tend to like AoS, US players tend to loathe it. I would guess GW has more impact in Europe than the US in general.

**TheWaspinator**

Based on this, interest in "warhammer sigmar" is waaaaaaay more in the UK than the USA.

https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=warhammer%20sigmar

**Mymearan**

thekingofkings wrote:
What I am seeing just judging from the forums I go to: European players tend to like AoS, US players tend to loathe it. I would guess GW has more impact in Europe than the US in general.

Definitely. There are already several big UK tournaments doing AoS in the UK. Although I'm pretty sure there'll be AoS at LVO and maybe Adepticon?

**Whirlwind**

TheWaspinator wrote:
Based on this, interest in "warhammer sigmar" is waaaaaaay more in the UK than the USA.

https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=warhammer%20sigmar

Cool, I didn't realise you could do this

What's really fascinating is when you add more GW terms just as a comparison to see how things compare

https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=warhammer%20sigmar%2C%20%2Fm%2F03mf9x%2C%20age%20of%20sigmar%2C%20%2Fm%2F012ywp&cmpt=q&tz=Etc%2FGMT

Partially shows just the problems GW just from the reduction in people using their search name

**VeteranNoob**

There was a very brief mention (on Warseer or Dakka) in a few posts on "Warhammer" as referring to Fantasy or other fantasy minis. Kinda like depending on where you are in the States Coke means any soda or Kleenex means any tissue. They said in the UK Warhammer was that all-encompassing term, thus the rebranding into Warhammer stores. I don't like in the UK so I can't say.

But, I wonder how many groups anywhere refer to AoS as Warhammer now, if that's the game they play now. My group does. Not that this would negate searches, but just got me curious is all.

**RiTides**

Mymearan - Yes, AdeptiCon will have a few AoS events I believe, although they also are running 9th Age and Kings of War.

I can definitely believe AoS is doing better in the UK, it seems like there's a number of factors going for it there (denser coverage of GW stores, being even more of a household name, having their HQ running key events for it, and basically just being able to show gamers how they envision it being played more readily).

**VeteranNoob**

Mymearan wrote:
thekingofkings wrote:
What I am seeing just judging from the forums I go to: European players tend to like AoS, US players tend to loathe it. I would guess GW has more impact in Europe than the US in general.

Definitely. There are already several big UK tournaments doing AoS in the UK. Although I'm pretty sure there'll be AoS at LVO and maybe Adepticon?

In the US AoS is making its way through some of the tournaments but we have many tournaments throughout the year and the capacity ranges from 30-100-something. LVO looks to be just hosting an invitational WFB Masters but Adepticon has AoS. Nova Open is another big one including AoS as one of its game. Some events like Siege at the Tower and Buckeye Battles went 9th Age for now, others had to make the call shortly after AoS for planning purposes, like Holy Wars, which is a perfect match for AoS due to the unique and epic-quality terrain. Waaaaghpaca! going on now moved to a con-style event with multiple smaller events, including AoS. Events are spread across the country but these guys run great events so I'm confident they'll ultimately be fine since it's the community attending that makes the real fun. Speaking of which...I best start registering for these events this summer.

**Mymearan**

What I would give to attend Holy Wars AoS event... They're creating insane themed tables with table-specific missions that sound amazing.

**VeteranNoob**

Sadly I can't go again to this year 2 since I'm still in Sweden but only a few of us weren't attending and the are rightly keeping at 30 spots. It was awesome and AoS was a surprise but it's a perfect match for "Holy Wars: where the terrain plays"

Hopefully can get back in next year. The tables are just phenomenal, so are Waaaghpaca! Tables.

**thekingofkings**

RiTides wrote:
Mymearan - Yes, AdeptiCon will have a few AoS events I believe, although they also are running 9th Age and Kings of War.

I can definitely believe AoS is doing better in the UK, it seems like there's a number of factors going for it there (denser coverage of GW stores, being even more of a household name, having their HQ running key events for it, and basically just being able to show gamers how they envision it being played more readily).

It would be nice if it did a little better here, playing the same 4 people every time is really bringing out the weaknesses in AoS. what we really have figured out is GW really got one over on the community, AoS is warhammer fantasy, just with a fraction of the rules and is getting just as boring just as fast. it really needs a larger community to thrive, standing on its own merits this thing is a serious lame duck they once again sold us the same product with a few tweaks to it for even more money. we have been trying out making AoS more like their LOTR game, which we at least feel was a much better skirmish idea.

**Plumbumbarum**

thekingofkings wrote:
What I am seeing just judging from the forums I go to: European players tend to like AoS, US players tend to loathe it. I would guess GW has more impact in Europe than the US in general.

Anecdotal but it's absolutely loathed in Poland. "Let's play AoS" is a running joke in my area.

There are ofc a few guys interested around, maybe enough to fill a single basement in a block of flats built by soviets heh.

**Hero606v2**

In the UK the SCGT AOS event sold 125 tickets in the first 30 minutes of going on sale.

**Mymearan**

Hero606v2 wrote:
In the UK the SCGT AOS event sold 125 tickets in the first 30 minutes of going on sale.

That's insane! 125 people has to be one of the biggest miniature gaming events in the UK?

**Herzlos**

Hero606v2 wrote:
In the UK the SCGT AOS event sold 125 tickets in the first 30 minutes of going on sale.

According to what looks to be the official thread it's got a capacity of 36 and currently has 26 paid up attendees after about a month. Is there another South Coat GT AoS event?

Edit: that's a lie, it's just the warm up. I can't find anything out about the official one, I just get stuck in a loop of links.

**Zywus**

I would assume there are bigger ones. UK has a big miniature community and the distances and infrastructure mean they can draw people from all over the country.

The previous SCGT's have had around 200 people but 125 attendants is admittedly pretty impressive for AoS. Especially considering GW struggle to draw over 30 for their events.

**Hero606v2**

Dan Heelan who's the organiser (and who hosts Heelanhammer podcast) actually stated 125 sold in the first 5 minutes of going on sale.

**Mymearan**

It's from the Heelanhammer Twitter, they're the guys running it.

Zywus wrote:
I would assume there are bigger ones. UK has a big miniature community and the distances and infrastructure mean they can draw people from all over the country.

The previous SCGT's have had around 200 people but 125 attendants is admittedly pretty impressive for AoS. Especially considering GW struggle to draw over 30 for their events.

Well... 125 after five minutes. I assume they'll get more

**Herzlos**

Cool, here's a link: https://twitter.com/HeelanHammer/status/693881566741860353

**VeteranNoob**

Zywus wrote:
I would assume there are bigger ones. UK has a big miniature community and the distances and infrastructure mean they can draw people from all over the country.

The previous SCGT's have had around 200 people but 125 attendants is admittedly pretty impressive for AoS. Especially considering GW struggle to draw over 30 for their events.

Heelanhammer proudly totes SCGT as the largest Warhammer (Fantasy, now AoS) tournament in the world with 200 players.

**Kilkrazy**

125 is fair to middling.

Salute, which is one of the biggest, sells several thousand tickets.

There are a number of shows that attract hundreds or thousands of visitors. 125 is a pretty good club show, in my experience.

Here's a calendar for 2016 that will show the number of events going on in the UK. Although this is historicals a lot of these shows will also feature F/SF.

http://www.bhgs.org.uk/calendar.html

**Mymearan**

Kilkrazy wrote:
125 is fair to middling.

Salute, which is one of the biggest, sells several thousand tickets.

There are a number of shows that attract hundreds or thousands of visitors. 125 is a pretty good club show, in my experience.

Here's a calendar for 2016 that will show the number of events going on in the UK. Although this is historicals a lot of these shows will also feature F/SF.

http://www.bhgs.org.uk/calendar.html

This is not a show, it's a tournament for a single game, unlike Salute and others. How many single-game tournaments in the UK are 200+ players? And again, 125 was in the first five minutes, it's not the final number. I'd call that a far cry from "fair to middling".

**infinite_array**

Mymearan wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:
125 is fair to middling.

Salute, which is one of the biggest, sells several thousand tickets.

There are a number of shows that attract hundreds or thousands of visitors. 125 is a pretty good club show, in my experience.

Here's a calendar for 2016 that will show the number of events going on in the UK. Although this is historicals a lot of these shows will also feature F/SF.

http://www.bhgs.org.uk/calendar.html

This is not a show, it's a tournament for a single game, unlike Salute and others. How many single-game tournaments in the UK are 200+ players? And again, 125 was in the first five minutes, it's not the final number. I'd call that a far cry from "fair to middling".

Well, Vengeance 2016 (a Guild Ball tournament in the UK) is going to be a 128 player tournament. Not bad for an entirely new tournament and a game/company that's a year old.

And holy moly, 42 pounds for a tournament?! That had better include a steak dinner catered to the store, especially since it seems each player is required to bring their own terrain for their games.

Also, I think it's easy to get "sign-ups" for a tournament when you only have to pay 2 pounds to be registered, and then pay the additional 40 pounds later.

Additionally - I still think it's funny that a 4 page ruleset needs 30+ pages of rules/FAQs to run a tournament.

**Herzlos**

Yeah, you're comparing the wrong thing.

For a tournament, 125 people is pretty huge. It's likely only topped by some 40K GT's and Blood Bowl.

I'm not sure how representative it is though, the guys running Salute have a thread about attendees for a tournament in London (the capital & largest city) which only has about 20 attendees so far.

It's definitely a good thing though, and hopefully the 125+ attendees enjoy it

**Kilkrazy**

As a pure tournament it's hard to say. Most historicals tournaments in the UK are run around shows and are multi-game and multi-scale.

**RoperPG**

infinite_array wrote:

Additionally - I still think it's funny that a 4 page ruleset needs 30+ pages of rules/FAQs to run a tournament.

It doesn't though. But then, if there's that many amendments, probably not my sort of AoS tournament.

**pax macharia**

Didn't this thread start as another price gripefest? And now it's focused on tournaments after 15 pages? My favorite part though is how you don't know what the thread is about until you look cause of the vague title, very digg/reddit-esque.