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Made in us
Dakka Veteran





New Bow/On table top video from a few days ago. Think this might just be a version of what was posed above in it's own video? But it does answer some of our speculation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=115&v=QD5MBuCBv2g

On tabletop will have lots of videos on it around time of release.

Some info. CB is trying to cut SKUs down to 50 per faction but that may still be too many.

People like the complexity of the game but they need to reduce entry barrier.

There are lots of fans of the game but they don't have the time/ability to really get into the game. CB calls them "rebound" customers and Defiance is trying to hook them.

The "rebounds" tend to like the operation boxes but never go past that due to the depth of the core game vs the main rules among other reasons. Warren is one of those people. Loves the system and setting but doesn't have time to keep up with core game.

Defiance doesn't feel like "infinity light", it just feels like a different way to play Infinity that's pick up and play.

Defiance is Kickstarter exclusive. No retail version.

The sculpting for Defiance started back in January to be ready for the KSer campaign.

If it does well there could be other things they bring to KS.

They're aiming to try and make every miniature unique in the KSer. Carlos said maybe 90% if not 100%. Several of these would just be different heads and equipment.

They may add a vs mode to defiance if the game is popular enough and Carlos would love to add it.

Arestea!(SP?) did very well in Spain. They sold out all the spanish copies pretty quickly.

Operation Wildfire was designed to be used with Defiance as both factions play a big role.

-------N4-----------

The Community was asking for N4 for quite some time as the game had "gone to far in one direction" (never said what this direction was)

N3 was around for 6 years.

600+ skus need to be supported. So it's a big effort.

They're worried about changing stuff that ruin someone's favorite unit.

N4 doesn't use the defiance/Arestiea! dice.

N4 has two blocks. Basic and Advanced. The rules writers had to design around both.

Basic is the level of complexity in the Operation boxes. This is Code One.

Code one is limited in the SKUs it will support. Less equipment and skills.

Army will have a Code one section.

Code One is also there to make it easier to build up scenes at game stores due to limited SKUs. Code one SKUs would be essential for Advanced Infinity and be easier for them to know what to keep in stock.

Carlos used Tunguska as an example of why they're doing this. It was a normal release but it was the most popular release of it's time and while CB knew it would sell well but couldn't get retailers to carry it because it wasn't a big special release like Gencon or around another big event.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/10/10 03:13:26


 
   
Made in si
Camouflaged Zero






Thanks for the summary!
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Interesting. Definitely can appreciate the Tunguska comment, though its also worth remembering that the Bike and Puppets just came out and are a huge part of the draw there. I don't doubt it wouldn't have gotten more hype as a box set though. GW has really driven the market towards these temporary splash releases and honestly Infinity would be struggling a lot more if they weren't essentially already doing something similar.

Code One sounds like basically how we teach players now. I have my Operation box, they generally start with something similar and I play that against them until they feel comfortable with their stuff. Not sure how excited I'd be about Tunguska in Code One though...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/10 13:54:44


 
   
Made in us
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver





4th Obelisk On The Right

Code One sounds like it will become the default game mode for "fluff" players. As there might be less incentive to take only the most efficient models to play ITS matches.

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





The lack of hacking would be pretty disappointing, but I'll be curious to see how it works out.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Sounds like every infinity mini will be usable in Defiance. They want the people who like a mini but don't want to play the faction in Infinity to be able to buy something and just use it.

I'm curious how KSer only will go for them. Now Carlos wasn't asked if a smaller box version of the game would be released as we've discussed how the game really isn't targeting boardgamers and in the interview Carlos and Warren really stressed that the game is for Infinity fans and target at people who want to get into Infinity but not play Infinity. While it's a good move to broaden your market I don't know how a 3-4 week window would allow them to really do that and build up another player segment.

As with Defiant and Core One now CB has not-infinity and Infinity Light all with the same miniatures. Do those groups cross over enough? Are people who find out about defiance say a year from now be willing to wait for a KSer reprint or will Core One appeal to them?

As for Tunguska, I didn't write out more, but Carlos gave the impression that a lot of distributors and stores pushed back on them due to having SKU bloat and not sure what they should order vs not. Seams like they're really trying to focus on only have a few boxes and singles for your average store to sell. It'll be interesting to see if they have some sort of limited format in Core one as over time, say 2-3 years, wouldn't it become just as bloated SKU wise for stores as surly they're going to be adding new released to it and not keep it frozen?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/10 19:29:47


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





It depends. This is a market wide trend in no small part caused by GW's resurgence and marketing strategy mixed a bit with online retail. Miniature Market has become the only real outlet for "evergreen" products. Traditional distributors and retailers really only get to compete on launch day and maybe a month out. Companies still really need that distribution chain though to get the volume of orders needed to keep prices down. The net result is we're seeing retailers really only go for releases that they can set out a few copies of that will sell 1-2 to fans of that faction and the other to a potential new player as an entry point. Anything that needs to be "stocked" is just stuff that will sit on shelves forever, ruining what little margins exist.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






 Monkeysloth wrote:

The "rebounds" tend to like the operation boxes but never go past that due to the depth of the core game vs the main rules among other reasons. Warren is one of those people. Loves the system and setting but doesn't have time to keep up with core game.

Yeah, that's me. All my armies tend to be starter set plus other stuff to bulk up to 300 points. Partly because they're my favourite miniatures (after all, the models in a starter box are the reason I collect that faction), partly because combing through the lists of units is boring, and hard to do due to the way they're presented.



Defiance is Kickstarter exclusive. No retail version.


Bah. Hopefully my desire for shiny things will outweigh my objection to that tactic and I'll cough up for it.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Monkeysloth wrote:

As with Defiant and Core One now CB has not-infinity and Infinity Light all with the same miniatures. Do those groups cross over enough? Are people who find out about defiance say a year from now be willing to wait for a KSer reprint or will Core One appeal to them?

You wouldn't think a competitive army-building game and a cooperative dungeon crawl would have a lot of overlap, but I think both formats appeal to casual players who just want a 10 minute introduction to the game and start playing, rather than spending a week pouring over 30 pages of ammo types. I think the miniatures themselves are the real obstacle to any miniatures game, and if you have multiple games that use the same miniatures, you are already halfway to playing it.

I'm very much an Operations-only player. I get all the Operation boxes, play them and their Beyond missions, then wait for the next set to come out. I buy the miniatures because I like them and want to paint them, but it's rare for me to buy a miniature for Infinity thinking about how it plays. I've painted multiple dozens of Infinity models that I've never once used in a game. That could change with Code One and Defiance.

They've said that Defiance is KS-only, but I wonder how true that will be. I think they'll probably release some version of the game to retail in the future. I think the main problem is largely metal miniatures (and the sheer number of them) being something that has almost no appeal outside of miniature gaming - you never see metal board game miniatures anymore and the BGG crowd simply will not be able to handle it (see what happened when Monsterpocalypse went hobby). It's possible that a plastics version of Defiance could happen if the game proves successful, with repeated sculpts and quality on par with Aristeia, making the game available at a less hobby-level of involvement.
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





Melbourne, Australia

As someone who loves the Infinity rules mostly as they are, I'm also excited for a slimmed down version just so I could get two games in on a night.

The galaxy is littered with the single-planet graveyards of civilisations which made the economically sensible decision not to explore space. 
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob





SoCal

Not sure a company that's trying to stay small has the bandwidth to keep two rules sets going even if one is limited, especially if they're in the middle of supporting several board games.

They need to stop doubling down on over complicating the game for all future releases and build it into the core. Otherwise, N4, much like Warmachine Mk3, will start out just as bloated and require another costly pivot.

   
Made in om
Dakka Veteran





Muscat, Oman

 Vertrucio wrote:
Not sure a company that's trying to stay small has the bandwidth to keep two rules sets going even if one is limited, especially if they're in the middle of supporting several board games.

They need to stop doubling down on over complicating the game for all future releases and build it into the core. Otherwise, N4, much like Warmachine Mk3, will start out just as bloated and require another costly pivot.
I want to believe that they can do it if they go about it in a smart way. That's probably a little bit optimistic, but I like the idea so I want to see it work.

--Lord of the Sentinels Eternal-- 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
[***]







New Box Set:



Valkyrie, Señor Massacre, Hannibal, and Laxmee: this is the SoF Team in Infinity, the heart and core of the Foreign Company. It looks fantastic when they make an appearance on the battlefield - we couldn’t expect anything else from such Aristeia! stars.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Renders were previewed at Interplanetario. Deadpool is diving over a wall in his as I recall.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
[***]







For some reason, I really like the idea of the Foreign Company, and I look forward to building up an army using them.

It doesn't hurt that I already have a bunch of models that are in the Foreign Company too though, of course!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/16 22:42:05


 
   
Made in gr
Thermo-Optical Spekter





Greece

Agreed Foreign Company seems extremely fun to play.

more info and images of Defiance tiles here
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





It's a real shame they're using hexagons so this isn't compatible with the RPG tiles.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut







 Monkeysloth wrote:
It's a real shame they're using hexagons so this isn't compatible with the RPG tiles.


The Infinity RPG produced tiles with squares? Heresy, I say.
   
Made in us
Novice Knight Errant Pilot




Oakland, CA

 Monkeysloth wrote:
It's a real shame they're using hexagons so this isn't compatible with the RPG tiles.

No GM worth his dice would ever let a little thing like this stand in his way!
   
Made in om
Dakka Veteran





Muscat, Oman


I quite like that concept art. I just looked up the actual miniatures, and sadly they aren't living up to the hope that the artwork instilled in me.

--Lord of the Sentinels Eternal-- 
   
Made in gr
Thermo-Optical Spekter





Greece


   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I like how 100% of the video content is in the thumbnail.
   
Made in gr
Thermo-Optical Spekter





Greece

Me too actually.

Should I or somebody else create a separate thread for it?
   
Made in si
Camouflaged Zero






 Soul Samurai wrote:

I quite like that concept art. I just looked up the actual miniatures, and sadly they aren't living up to the hope that the artwork instilled in me.


Really, I think it's one of the best box in a while.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/17 23:36:26


 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





 schoon wrote:
 Monkeysloth wrote:
It's a real shame they're using hexagons so this isn't compatible with the RPG tiles.

No GM worth his dice would ever let a little thing like this stand in his way!


Oh, not from the RPG side. That doesn't matter. Just less things to expand defiance as well as the RPG tiles are some cool startship/base designs.
   
Made in om
Dakka Veteran





Muscat, Oman

 Modock wrote:
Really, I think it's one of the best boxed in a while.
Well, I really like Deadpool's model and dynamic pose, but the other's poses look a bit strange to me, and Valkyrie's model doesn't quite live up to the concept art in my eyes. On the other hand Laxmee's model looks better than the artwork, despite the "photoshoot" pose.

Of course that's just me. Personally I really liked some of CB's recent Haqq releases; the aesthetics just worked for me the way some other stuff doesn't.

--Lord of the Sentinels Eternal-- 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Soul Samurai wrote:
...Valkyrie's model doesn't quite live up to the concept art in my eyes.
The GenCon one was much better. I think the body is the same, but the arms and head are different.
Spoiler:
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





She might look better from that angle as well. The head on angle removes a lot of the body motion compared to the angle of the GenCon pic.
   
Made in om
Dakka Veteran





Muscat, Oman

I hadn't seen that Gencon one. It's much better, although I still don't like the legs; there's something about the way her knees/toes are turned inwards that looks awkward to me.

--Lord of the Sentinels Eternal-- 
   
 
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