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This was the 2nd time that I faced Dreadknights in an RTT. Yesterday, my opponent was fielding a Crowewing with 30 Purifiers, Grandmaster, and 2 Dreadknights. He was giving 'scout' to one of those Dreadknights thanks to grand strategy. These guys having teleporters are tough to deal with. Finally, my Fire Dragons took them down. But I'm really scared about them. Thoughts?

Unfortunately all I can tell you is if Fire dragon's aren't dealing with it well you may want to consider pathfinding rangers. I've seen small groups of them tear apart wraithlords in 1 round of shooting and they do well with the rending and pinning rules.

Hell knights have weaponry well built to kill Eldar troopers and in many cases their ships as well. I am pretty sure Avatar is faster init and better WS and the fact he's MC as well to boot would make him the best counter i could think of against Hell Knight rushes. If anything he would think twice before deciding to go in and I would be surprised to see them survive against melta shots before a powerful assualt that cuts armor.

Otherwise... scatter lasers?

Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:Unfortunately all I can tell you is if Fire dragon's aren't dealing with it well you may want to consider pathfinding rangers. I've seen small groups of them tear apart wraithlords in 1 round of shooting and they do well with the rending and pinning rules.

Hell knights have weaponry well built to kill Eldar troopers and in many cases their ships as well. I am pretty sure Avatar is faster init and better WS and the fact he's MC as well to boot would make him the best counter i could think of against Hell Knight rushes. If anything he would think twice before deciding to go in and I would be surprised to see them survive against melta shots before a powerful assualt that cuts armor.

Otherwise... scatter lasers?

The Avatar of Khaine is a Daemon and as such will strike last against Grey Knights regardless of initiative. Seconded pathfinders though, they should work.

sorry bro there is notthing you can do to stop this list.
The Hell Knights army is just so OP the funny thing is
my friend wiped a DH army with a daemon army.
last week, it was the funnest thing i have seen in a long time
he used flesh hounds of korn to disarm the pallys 55+ points each with no weapons LOL then he face rolled the army

Fire dragons and guide should do it. I would be more worried about the purifier spam.

schadenfreude wrote:Fire dragons and guide should do it. I would be more worried about the purifier spam.

Well, I faced a Crowe Wing with 2 Dreadknights in an RTT, yesterday. See game 2: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/420081.page
Imagine that grand strategy can give the Dreadknights (with teleporter) 'scout' so that they can be in your face in turn 1. Indeed, Eldar has several ways to deal with them (Pathfinders, guided Fire Dragons, S6 spam but this didn't work for me so far).

What about other armies. How do they deal with 2 Dreadknights charging in round 1?

wuestenfux wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:Fire dragons and guide should do it. I would be more worried about the purifier spam.

Well, I faced a Crowe Wing with 2 Dreadknights in an RTT, yesterday. See game 2: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/420081.page
Imagine that grand strategy can give the Dreadknights (with teleporter) 'scout' so that they can be in your face in turn 1. Indeed, Eldar has several ways to deal with them (Pathfinders, guided Fire Dragons, S6 spam but this didn't work for me so far).

What about other armies. How do they deal with 2 Dreadknights charging in round 1?

If the GK player deploys 1st grand strategy is already declared and placed on 2 DK as scouts. Eldar can deploy to minimize the damage caused by a turn 1 assault , or full reserve after seeing 2 scout moving DKs deployed resulting in the grand strategy being wasted.

I'd say either weigh them down with AP2 or 1 guns or throw something like Banshees at them.

I lost a Dreadknight before it could even strike to a squad of stealers, and they just had rending.

Dreadknights with personal teleporters cannon shunt as part of their scout move, see FAQ. So you have a turn or two to shoot them with starcannons and force them to take 5+ invuln saves. Probably best to stay out of close combat with em imo, avatar or not.

Mechanized Space Corps wrote:Dreadknights with personal teleporters cannon shunt as part of their scout move, see FAQ. So you have a turn or two to shoot them with starcannons and force them to take 5+ invuln saves. Probably best to stay out of close combat with em imo, avatar or not.

Correct, but they can still make a 12" regular move.

12" scout move + 12" move + 6 inch assault range is good enough to launch a turn 1 assault if anything is deployed within 30" of them.

schadenfreude wrote:

Mechanized Space Corps wrote:Dreadknights with personal teleporters cannon shunt as part of their scout move, see FAQ. So you have a turn or two to shoot them with starcannons and force them to take 5+ invuln saves. Probably best to stay out of close combat with em imo, avatar or not.

Correct, but they can still make a 12" regular move.

12" scout move + 12" move + 6 inch assault range is good enough to launch a turn 1 assault if anything is deployed within 30" of them.

Correct. Yesterday, in the RTT, this happened to a SW player being charged by 2 Dreadknights in the first round. These guys are hard to avoid in some setups.

Just reserve your units if you're worried about them scouting to you. Many of my opponents use this when they see I'm running a list with a GM and DK and it pretty much leaves the DK sitting in the back waiting to shunt and Incinerate on turn 2/3. I probably won't survive to make it into an assault if there are Fragons sitting close by with a Farseer (wish I could have that many meltas) because that 5++ only goes so far.

I also saw someone warning you against the Avatar. I'll say this, if it launches the assault against the GK it retains I 6 (psyk-out only work when the GK launch the assault) also note that a DK does not have these nifty toys, so it will always strike at I 4 with either it's hammer or sword (or fists...but if that's the case you're probably safe anyhow). Don't let Preferred Enemy scare you, I've seen daemons tear up GK in assaults plenty of times, just choose your battles carefully.

Wuestenfux wrote:

What about other armies. How do they deal with 2 Dreadknights charging in round 1?

Well, I have had several experience in such situations with both my BA & BT:-

1. with BA (Sanguinor + Mephiston's list 1750pts)
- Well, not much of a problem. The D-Knights did destroyed my transport (Rhino) & stunned/weapon-destroyed my Storm Raven, but not much. They were both killed/destroyed in 2 combat phases afterwards if I'm not mistaken. One taken down by Meph solo, the other from the combined effort of Sanguinor & Assault Marines.

- The rest of the GKs (Crowe + 20-30 Purifiers) were eventually taken down/destroyed in Turn 5. 2 Storm Ravens weapons ablazing + the assaults from 2 DC Dredds, 10 DCs, Sanguinor, Meph & 5-men Assault Marines tend to do that effectively against non-draigowing army.


2. with BT (my unorthodox termies-speeders gunline 1750pt list)
- At 1st it looked like I was about to lose 2 terminator sqds simultaneously in GK Turn 1, but luckily the D-Knights shootings weren't effective at all. Instead, due to not having frag grenades (he was hoping to pull my termies out of cover/area terrain by using the Righteous Zeal rule against me, but things didn't go as planned), they were forced to charge into the terrains & struck at initiative 1. Both D-Knights were KO-ed in his very own 1st turn assault phase. 10 powerfists attacks per termie-sqd with re-roll due to Preferred Enemy - no surprise there right?

- After that, I just stayed >31" away & took my sweet time taking apart the Purifiers sqds with 22 krak/frag missiles + 9 heavy bolter shots per turn.

- Of course, in later games the GK players opted to switch from Purifiers to GK Termies/Paladins, making my Krak missiles spam almost useless...

Far as orks they've not been a huge problem against me in CC, basically they are Trygons with no ability to re-roll hits or wounds to for me it makes it alot easier to fight them with just boyz spam. Honestly I would say that is the only way orks deal with Dreadknights that i can imagine other than strange things like SAG, or just dakka spam

These things are meant to be dangerous! They a grey knights for Mork's sake, so make sure if they are going to get you the best thing I could say I bubble wrapping with units not useful and just take a unit of pathfinders with probably a Dire Avenger Bladestorm as you can still wound him. Honestly with Eldar you shouldn't have a problem with them if you doom + guide properly on them for being so close. Also wouldn't wraithguard work well against this thing at least as range?

Personally this would be what I do to kill a Hell Knight as the Eldar

Farseer Doom Dreadknight
Farseer Guides Fire Dragons
Pathfinders fire to see if they get a view rending shots and see if effective.
Fire Dragons Fire to push it to death or damn close
Dire Avengers blade storm to deal with any left over threat from it or new approaching enemies.

My suggestion is pure focus fire the dreadknights one at a time it's the only way to be sure you are limiting them, I'd also advise you take the 30 purifier spam very seriously as to me that is much worse than 2 dreadknights regardless of army because you are focusing on the obvious decoy here while he widdles you down. Personally i've lose to see Scorps rush in and screw those punks up a bit using outflank while the knights are so far away from them I'd say many armies don't fear assualt as much as the eldar do and normally have means to deal with it. I'd say your best bet is that weapon concentration or just trying to avoid them outright using mechdar

The one time I fought a dread knight it did not go well. I was still green using my power blobs, and while it wasn't the best list it could have been, it did the trick most of the time.

Well to make a long story short I shot at my opponents dreadknight about 230 times with lasguns until it died.

Off the charge, a Dread Knight will only have 3 or 4 attacks depending on how it is kitted out. And it's only Initiative 4. It has a 2+ save but only a 5 plus invul save and it's big so won't be able to hide anywhere - these are it's weaknesses. But it is T6. Treat it like Terminators if you're shooting it - weight of fire will cause some wounds but not a great deal reliably because of that T6. That is where Fire Dragons come in - they should be able to cause a few wounds. But the DK has 4 wounds - how many FD do you take in a squad? If it's only 5 then odds are against you killing it in one round of shooting. Keep some Banshees close and you should hopefully be able finish it off in CC. Otherwise, a second squad of FD should do the trick. The big problem is you really need to take it out at the first attempt and I think you'll need to commit two very good Eldar units to take it down. If it gets to do it's thing, it can really hurt all those T3 Eldar because the DK is S6 and the heavy incinerator is also S6. It's also very mobile with a teleporter and has power weapons.

ColdSadHungry wrote:Off the charge, a Dread Knight will only have 3 or 4 attacks depending on how it is kitted out. And it's only Initiative 4. It has a 2+ save but only a 5 plus invul save and it's big so won't be able to hide anywhere - these are it's weaknesses. But it is T6. Treat it like Terminators if you're shooting it - weight of fire will cause some wounds but not a great deal reliably because of that T6. That is where Fire Dragons come in - they should be able to cause a few wounds. But the DK has 4 wounds - how many FD do you take in a squad? If it's only 5 then odds are against you killing it in one round of shooting. Keep some Banshees close and you should hopefully be able finish it off in CC. Otherwise, a second squad of FD should do the trick. The big problem is you really need to take it out at the first attempt and I think you'll need to commit two very good Eldar units to take it down. If it gets to do it's thing, it can really hurt all those T3 Eldar because the DK is S6 and the heavy incinerator is also S6. It's also very mobile with a teleporter and has power weapons.

Would you suggest banshees? Or take Harlequins instead which could negate the incoming fire of these monsters, strike first with good rending options and then hit and run away if things get too harry? Egh they are both good choices needing 6s to wound it ... i just think veil of tears and hit and run might make the difference for him.

Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:

ColdSadHungry wrote:Off the charge, a Dread Knight will only have 3 or 4 attacks depending on how it is kitted out. And it's only Initiative 4. It has a 2+ save but only a 5 plus invul save and it's big so won't be able to hide anywhere - these are it's weaknesses. But it is T6. Treat it like Terminators if you're shooting it - weight of fire will cause some wounds but not a great deal reliably because of that T6. That is where Fire Dragons come in - they should be able to cause a few wounds. But the DK has 4 wounds - how many FD do you take in a squad? If it's only 5 then odds are against you killing it in one round of shooting. Keep some Banshees close and you should hopefully be able finish it off in CC. Otherwise, a second squad of FD should do the trick. The big problem is you really need to take it out at the first attempt and I think you'll need to commit two very good Eldar units to take it down. If it gets to do it's thing, it can really hurt all those T3 Eldar because the DK is S6 and the heavy incinerator is also S6. It's also very mobile with a teleporter and has power weapons.

Would you suggest banshees? Or take Harlequins instead which could negate the incoming fire of these monsters, strike first with good rending options and then hit and run away if things get too harry? Egh they are both good choices needing 6s to wound it ... i just think veil of tears and hit and run might make the difference for him.

I would recommend 10 Fire Dragons - whether that is 1 squad of 10 or two squads of 5 (not fully conversant with all the Eldar rules - can't remember how many can go in a transport). But the idea is the Fire Dragons get the DK down to 1 or 2 wounds then the Banshees come in. Rolling 6s to wound, it's important to ensure they're all power weapons as you're not going to score that many wounds. I don't recall all of the Harlequin weapons but they can't all take rending weapons can they? I know most players take FD and DA though so CC might not be an option at all but you don't want to have to spend two or more turns tackling this thing as the real threat of the army is all the purifiers. So yeah, as many FD as possible shooting it up and if that's not enough finish it off with something else and power weapons are the best bet.

Well, I don't play Eldars anymore (sold mine to a friend a couple of years back). He turned out to be quite a competent Eldar General. The GKs totally hate his army.

From what I remember watching bits & pieces of his games (I was busy gaming myself during those times), he usually took out the DKs, Strike Sqds, Purifiers, Terminators, Paladins, Vindicare..i.e the GK's non-vehicles by using mass firepowers from his Guided 6 War Walkers - all armed with Starcannons.

He also uses the Night Spinner - unusual yes? - usually targeting those blob Purifiers/Termies/Paladins which are already in terrains, just to slow them down & forcing massive dangerous terrain tests.

Oh yeah, 1 more thing. Prince Yriel also seems to be very effective against power armoured GKs. Normally he'll just charge a sqd all by himself, have the enemy sqd surrounds him, & activate his pie-plate spc attack.

And thanks to Eldrad, he usually repositions the potential charged-targets to a safer locations, or anywhere, to minimize his 1st Turn losses.

Seriously, I noticed that he/his Eldars has a higher winning percentage fighting GKs & Necrons compared to my armies. Now I wish I hadn't sold him my Eldar army.