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Hello all, I will be playing my first 40k game this weekend.
I'll play against Necrons and Tyranids. It's also going to be the necron player's first game.

I had the army for a while, reading how I should play it

So here's the list :

---HQ--- 83

Shas'el crisis suit 83
-TL Missile Pod
-Targeting array
-Bonding knife

---Elite--- 338

3x crisis suit 169
-Team Leader
-TL Missile Pod
-Targeting array
-Bonding Knife

3x crisis suit 169
-Team Leader
-TL Missile Pod
-Targeting array
-Bonding Knife

2x Crisis suit 106
-TL Missile Pod
-Targeting array

---Troops--- 260

6x fire warrior 155
-shas'ui
-bonding knife
-Devilfish

9x fire warrior 105
-shas'ui
-bonding knife

---Heavy Support--- 315

Hammerhead 155
-Railgun
-Burstcannons
-Disruption Pod

1x Broadside 80
-Advanced stabilisation system

1x Broadside 80
-Advanced stabilisation system

Total : 996

We probably won't be playing objective based game so that explain the low troop count, if we do I'll drop the broadsides for another fire warrior + devilfish squad.
So from what I understand, Deathrains are quite strong vs MEQ and I think it should do fairly well vs nids too.
The suits are magnetized so changing the setup wont be a problem.

The bonding knives are because I have no idea what the other players will be bringing and I dont want my army running around the table, so I'll keep it safe for now.
What I had in mind was to put the commander with the 2suits squad.

I have access to other units but I dont think they'll do any good at this point cap (stealth suits, piranhas, pathfinders, other HH/broadside)

Please C&C, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks in advance

I also have a few questions more or less related to my list.

Regarding drones, I read somewhere that they didnt work too well with a commander because it kept him from joining other squad or some other negative effect. Is that correct ?

If I take bodyguards for my commander, does that keep him from joining with other units and he's stuck with the bodyguards?

Do unattached drones from vehicules still yield KP?

What would be an efficient setup versus IG ?

I'll probably also be playing vs CSM, I guess the deathrain would still be a wise choice vs those ?

Thanks again in advance !

Mesmetron wrote:Shas'o crisis suit 83
-TL Missile Pod
-Targeting array
-Bonding knife

Demote to a Shas'el. The extra wound and leadership aren't needed. Use the points saved on other things. **

Mesmetron wrote:Regarding drones, I read somewhere that they didnt work too well with a commander because it kept him from joining other squad or some other negative effect. Is that correct ?

No, it is not correct. A HQ suit can still join other units as per Ind. Chacrater rules. Drone rules allow for it.

Mesmetron wrote:-Devilfish

Give the D'fish a Disruption Pod for the Cover Save.

Mesmetron wrote:Hammerhead 155
-Railgun
-Burstcannons
-Disruption Pod

Add a MT so it can Move&Shoot like a Fast Vehicle. Combat speed and shoot all guns. Maybe Target Lock so the BCs shoot infantry and the RG gets tanks.

Mesmetron wrote:1x Broadside 80
-Advanced stabilisation system

1x Broadside 80
-Advanced stabilisation system

** Make 'em into one unit. I'd drop one of your Deathrains for points (a Team Leader) to make one of these a Teamldr, add Shield Drones. They greatly extend a b-side's life. hw Target Lock so you can split shooting if you want. This eliminates a Kill Point and you can still shoot the same.

Mesmetron wrote:So from what I understand, Deathrains are quite strong vs MEQ and I think it should do fairly well vs nids too.

Against bugs? No. The AP is too low for most of the big critters and too few shots for horde 'nids.

Deathrains are ideal for anti-razor spam (Meq lists, like you said) and other low AV transport lists. That is neither necrons (AV13), nor big-bugs, most of whose save will be 3+.

I'd go with a trio of FireStorms, BC/MP/MT. Good against bugs for volume. And good against necron troops, as you want volume there to wipe a unit out so it gets no Resurrection Protocals. And another unit of Fireknives, for the AP2 to hurt Carnifexes, T-fexes, etc.

Deathrains just don't seem suited for either of your opponents.

Mesmetron wrote:The suits are magnetized so changing the setup wont be a problem.

Didja use rectangular or round magnets?

Mesmetron wrote:The bonding knives are because I have no idea what the other players will be bringing and I dont want my army running around the table, so I'll keep it safe for now.

I use BKs too.

Mesmetron wrote:What I had in mind was to put the commander with the 2suits squad.

Reasonable.

Mesmetron wrote:I have access to other units but I dont think they'll do any good at this point cap (stealth suits, piranhas, pathfinders, other HH/broadside)

The Railhead, PathFs, B-side and Piranha are good to add, in that order, as you have larger point lists.

Remember, against your necron buddy, kill one unit at a time, to deny the ResProt. Also, given the ability for Night Fighting, a few BSFs here and there would help.

Report back to this thread on how you did. Or link a batrep to that forum.

Good luck.

Mesmetron wrote:I also have a few questions more or less related to my list.

Regarding drones, I read somewhere that they didnt work too well with a commander because it kept him from joining other squad or some other negative effect. Is that correct ?

If I take bodyguards for my commander, does that keep him from joining with other units and he's stuck with the bodyguards?

Do unattached drones from vehicules still yield KP?

What would be an efficient setup versus IG ?

I'll probably also be playing vs CSM, I guess the deathrain would still be a wise choice vs those ?

Thanks again in advance !

Replying from work during lunch break so most of this is off the top of my head.

I believe the codex states that a commander may take drones and still join another unit. The one exception is shadowsun and he drones, who may never join another unit.

I'm pretty sure that if you take bodyguards they then form a unit and cannot join another. I'm not sure on the ruling if the bodyguards die and the commander is alone, if he can then join another unit as an IC.

Detached gun drones give KP.

Personally I like to build TAC lists rather than focused on a single known opponent. Regardless, as many IG players go heavy mech then you deathrain spam will wreck much of his army as they're great light vehicle hunters. As for CSM I would focus on plasma weapons since they are most likely be rushing across the table. The thing to watch out for is any daemon princes with lashes as they pull your units out of position.

I agree with much of what Brotherekose said and building upon that; if you can muster the points I would bring a unit of pathfinders. Take the devilfish from the Firewarriors, give it to the pathfinders, and have the Firewarriors hop in turn 1. Pathfinders make your shooting much more effective and you can rely less on lucky dice and be fairly sure that whatever you mark for the turn is going to die. I like bringing 6 of them, which can usually give enough marks to cometely remove a 4+ cover save and clear the way for railguns.

Brothererekose wrote:Demote to a Shas'el. The extra wound and leadership aren't needed. Use the points saved on other things. **

My bad, I intended to pick the shas'el, I mixed up the name so I wont be getting any point back there. I'll edit my list to change that.

Brothererekose wrote:Didja use rectangular or round magnets?

I bought my suits here on the Swap Shop so they were already magnetized. The person who did the job used round magnets. There's a tutorial here on dakka that looks exactly like the suits that I got. There's still a few suits that aren't magnetized though so I'll probably be doing that too. I'll take a picture and link it when I get the chance.

Brothererekose wrote:
Report back to this thread on how you did. Or link a batrep to that forum.

Good luck.

I sure will and thanks for the help !

Rofel wrote:
I believe the codex states that a commander may take drones and still join another unit. The one exception is shadowsun and he drones, who may never join another unit.

Ok, if I decide to go with the type of commander that stays at long range with an unit of shield drones, would it be possible for him to join an unit of broadsides that also have shield drones on them ?

Rofel wrote:
if you can muster the points I would bring a unit of pathfinders. Take the devilfish from the Firewarriors, give it to the pathfinders, and have the Firewarriors hop in turn 1. Pathfinders make your shooting much more effective and you can rely less on lucky dice and be fairly sure that whatever you mark for the turn is going to die. I like bringing 6 of them, which can usually give enough marks to cometely remove a 4+ cover save and clear the way for railguns

Is it that effective at this point cap ? I could probably remove a suit and some upgrade to make room.
Well, I guess as long as I have enough force to use up all the markers it should be cost effective.

Thanks to both of you for answering my questions/C&C, I'll try and write another list and post back later.

As you start broadening your horizons as far as opposing armies, I would seriously recommend getting some Plasma Rifles. They are...REALLY good against heavy infantry, and if you make a Bladestorm unit (Plasma/Burst, MT) and are ok with kiting, you can do work against hordes too.

Deathrains are good though. They're cheap and reliable with high strength hits.

Good luck. May the Tau'va be with you.

Mesmetron wrote:Ok, if I decide to go with the type of commander that stays at long range with an unit of shield drones, would it be possible for him to join an unit of broadsides that also have shield drones on them ?

Yes, with or without his drones, he can join any infantry or jump infantry unit, including b-sides.

Mesmetron wrote:

Rofel wrote:if you can muster the points I would bring a unit of pathfinders. Take the devilfish from the Firewarriors, give it to the pathfinders, and have the Firewarriors hop in turn 1. Pathfinders make your shooting much more effective and you can rely less on lucky dice and be fairly sure that whatever you mark for the turn is going to die. I like bringing 6 of them, which can usually give enough marks to cometely remove a 4+ cover save and clear the way for railguns

Is it that effective at this point cap ? I could probably remove a suit and some upgrade to make room.

Not at 1k, no. The advice I've given and most other posters recommend PFs after 1250.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think I missed these the first go through-

Mesmetron wrote:If I take bodyguards for my commander, does that keep him from joining with other units and he's stuck with the bodyguards?

It's silly to, but yes he could (I'm 95% on this) attach, but trust me, you don't want to run a large unit like an HQ, his buddies and a joined crew. 6 suits (40mm bases) and drones?
1. Easier to catch in h2h
2. Easier to hit with pie-plates
3. Hard to hide behind LoS-blocking terrain.
4. Hard to JSJ safely

Mesmetron wrote:Do unattached drones from vehicules still yield KP?

This is in the Tau FAQ. Here, check GW's website for all the FAQs:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=600005&pIndex=1&aId=3400019&multiPageMode=true&start=2

If they detach and run around, they're a KP. If they die still embarked when the fish dies, they do *not* count.

Mesmetron wrote:What would be an efficient setup versus IG ?

9 b-sides and the rest Deathrains & FireStorms.

Mesmetron wrote:I'll probably also be playing vs CSM, I guess the deathrain would still be a wise choice vs those ?

If he's go lotsa rhinos, then yeah, but versus MEqs, I go with a mix, some FKs, some FS, some Deathrain. I think it is always wise to vary your suits and an enemy's composition will have different parts, yielding to better to different suit configs.

Thanks Brothererekose, the info is really helpful.
I wrote up another list that is more of a TAC list.

The only thing i'm not sure of is dropping the Devilfish from the FW unit, I took a suit out so taking another one out wouldnt be good imo.
Maybe I should drop a broadside if I really need it.

C&C and thanks again!

You could always give your FWs Pulse Carbines so they can move on objectives and still shoot. Not having a Devilfish really hampers their mobility and survivability though.

This last list is as tight & efficient as it can go. Time to start playing.

Only a few issues remaining but they should be easy to iron out. You've definitely been on the right track since the start of the thread.

- TLMP on your commander when your not going all Deathrain is a waste of his higher BS.
- Your Broadsides should be split back up.
- I agree with your concern about dropping the fish. Firewarriors out in the open are as good as dead.

Here's my 1k list:

HQ
Shas'el Crisis Commander
- Plasma Rifle
- Missile Pod
- Multi-Tracker

Elites
Shas'ui Crisis Battlesuit
- Plasma Rifle
- Missile Pod
- Multi-Tracker
Shas'ui Crisis Battlesuit
- Plasma Rifle
- Missile Pod
- Multi-Tracker
Shas'ui Crisis Battlesuit
- Plasma Rifle
- Missile Pod
- Multi-Tracker

Shas'ui Crisis Battlesuit
- Missile Pod
- Burst Cannon
- Multi-Tracker
Shas'ui Crisis Battlesuit
- Missile Pod
- Burst Cannon
- Multi-Tracker

Shas'ui Crisis Battlesuit
- Missile Pod
- Burst Cannon
- Multi-Tracker
Shas'ui Crisis Battlesuit
- Missile Pod
- Burst Cannon
- Multi-Tracker

Troops
Fire Warrior Team (6)
- Devilfish
- Disruption Pods

Kroot (10)
- Hounds (2)

Heavy Support
Broadside Team Leader
- Advanced Stabilization System
- Hard-wired Drone Controller
- Shield Drone

Broadside Team Leader
- Advanced Stabilization System
- Hard-wired Drone Controller
- Shield Drone

Broadside Team Leader
- Advanced Stabilization System
- Hard-wired Drone Controller
- Shield Drone

Total:1000

I would recommend running your broadsides like I do instead of as a single unit.
Abuse cover rules, 50% is 50% so stick the Shield drones behind hard cover and leave your broadsides out in the open to shoot freely.
This also gives you multiple firing angles so that you can deny your opponent cover saves/the ability to hide out of LoS.

Also, some people will jeer about how not having the Hammerhead is some sort of auto lose against horde armies but it's really not.

It's not an auto lose when you have that many Firestorms and Kroot for tar-pitting. Hell, you may even win a few combats with Kroot.