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So, after seeing talk about the awesomeness of DS, Wraiths, Spyders and Command barge, I have been unable to find talk about Tomb blades, the new necron jetbikes.

They have 4 across the board, 2 INT, 1 W, T4(5 because they are jetbikes) and 4+ Ar Sv
Rules are reanimation protocols. Wargear: can make Ar Sv 3+, can make BS 5, can have stealth rule.
Weapons can be: twin-linked tesla carbines, twin-linked gauss blaster or Particle beamer which is str 6 ap5 blast
I'm not very knowledgeable about Jetbikes, are these pretty good?

They don't look too shabby. The prospect of kitting them all out with S6 Blast weapons does look pretty tempting.

Depends; what's the points cost? They don't sound terribly hard to kill, so despite their weaponry, if they cost a lot of points or only come in small squads, they won't be useful.

Now, if they cost 30 points each with the blast weapons. . .

BeRzErKeR wrote:Depends; what's the points cost? They don't sound terribly hard to kill, so despite their weaponry, if they cost a lot of points or only come in small squads, they won't be useful.

Now, if they cost 30 points each with the blast weapons. . .

Yes. That is exactly it. And with the 3+ save, they become the same price as a destroyer.
They have T5 btw. Well, T4 for the purposes of instadeath, but they have one wound so it's kinda pointless.

Don't have a NEwcron codex, so I don't know how much a Destroyer costs! But I will say that T5 with a 3+ is not hard to kill with shooting. 1/3 S4 hits will wound, 1/3 will pass armor, so you're talking about 9 bolter/shoota hits to kill a Tomb Blade, which means a 20-strong Shoota Boyz mob can put down 2 in a single turn, and a 10-strong Tac Squad can drop 1 with their bolters and probably another with their plasma gun/missile launcher/melta/lascannon. Seems too fragile to be worth sinking many points into, to me.

Was talking to one of the guys at my LGS today about these, as I'm pretty sure I will be taking a squad of these.
Here's his thoughts and what I was thinking mostly as well.

They're jetbikes obviously.
They can turbo boost 24" giving them the default 3+ cover save as well as their 4+ armour save. And they're relentless.
Then you can give them Shadowloom for 10pts a pop which gives them stealth. Which makes their cover save whilst boosting a 2+.
Or you can give them something to make them BS5, or you can give them

They're T5 as all bikes are, and hitting on 3's from memory.
They have twin-linked Tesla Carbines as default or can take Twin-Linked Gauss Blasters if you prefer those.
Best of all in my eyes, they can take Particle Beamers, giving them weapons with small blasts.

So, for 40pts a model, you get turbo-boosting, Stealth'd, Blast dropping jetbikes with a 2+ save most of them time if you're boosting them around a lot.
Some people would rather take Wraiths and/or Scarabs over them, which I don't blame them for.

I intend on taking at least one squad of 5 in 90% of games I ever play WHEN they hopefully bring out kits for them.


That's just my 2 cents on them.

The only problem is that you Can't t-boost then fire.

I would take gauss rather than the blast. The Gauss has a better Ap (the blast is S6 AP5 i think whiel the gauss blaster is S5 AP4 rapidfire). As they are relentle if you get with 12" you can fire 2 S5 shots with re-rolls (the blast gun is not twin linked).

With the re-roll already there may not be much point is payign the BS5 as they hit on 3s already. They only start with a 4+ armour save but are T5 which will help mitigate the saves you will need to take.

I would give them Shadowlooms (Stealth USR) for the nice cover save after T-Boosting, making them 30 points per model (switching to gauss blasters is free)

I would prefeer taking these to Destroyer i think due to the points savings....but that will change when 6th ed makes Preferred enemy count for shooting and suddenly Destoryer get re-rolls to hit in shooting. In the meantime, if my opponent allow sit i will be proxying destroyer models for tomb blades to give them a try.

Apparently the kit will be prt of the 2nd wave which, according to rumour, is due out in March.

I think just purchasing the Particle beamers, is the best way to go. They can really put out a lot of wounds, as those blasts will add up quickly.

I think the biggest issue, is people will upgrade them too much, when they really need to be kept cheap. Between RP and the T5, they should do fine for survivability. Chances are your enemy will likely ignore them, in favor of other threats you have anyway, which can really be in your favor.

has anyone managed to make any yet? i've not seen any online.

My thought was to spin around the torso of a destoyer to make the hull look longer, Then either replace the gauss Cannon with a Gauss Blaster from the Immortals kit or somehow make the blast hull mounted.

Maybe add som plasticard vanes to make them look more aerodynamic.

As Sasori says, keep them cheap and cheerful.
I personally run a squad of 5 with Particle beamers on the flank with my catacomb command barge, they're fairly ignorable next to such a huge threat, and if my opponent (mostly marines regretfully) wants to shoot ALL his firepower on it, thats alot of wasted bolters, and mass small blast Str 6 fire power builds up extremely quickly, a squad of these will wreck any horde, and put out respectable damage on any MEQ.

Hmmm. I see your point. Vs Hordes the small blast woudl be very effective. I tend to play against marines 90% of the time, very rarely orks or IG.

It also depends on what you want to use them for. With gauss blasters and S5 they have a chance to pop the rear armour of transports and get glancing hits with the roll of 6. With massed infantry or Hordes the small blast or the tesla might be a better option.

As an aside - i dont see a lot of people pushing tesla as much as they did before release - is it not up to the hype?

Tesla is great -- just on the Tomb blades, the blast option will more likely net you a larger number of hits vs certain opponents. Immortals can take tesla carbines, which they should do in my opinion, and the tomb blades should take the particle beamer. 150 points for 5 s6 blasts/turn and it's on a far more survivable platform than a thunderfire cannon. Also if some die they have a 1/3 chance to come back to life.

I too will be fielding tomb blades after their model release in march, if that is when it happens.

Praxiss wrote:The only problem is that you Can't t-boost then fire.

Forgot about that... Whoops.
Ohh well, dropping 5 ST6 AP5 blasts on my friends Gaunts shall be fun still.

Which is why i woudl be tempted to shell out for the 10 point Shadowloom to get the 2+ cover after the intial T-Boost, that way you are more likely to survive to fire off those templates.

I'm hoping the kit will provide all 3 gun options as well.

I find either with Particle Beamers and play them like Destroyers or run them with Shadowlooms with Tesla or Gauss and use them as a cover wall to screen TPs or the like works best.

The 5BS is a bit silly on a twinlinked or blast platform but it only cost 25 points for a group of 5. Definitely something to consider with spare points if you feel they are getting ignored alot. Hitting 97.22 % of your shots or having a 61.11% chance of hitting within 1" of your target is not to shabby.

They're only 30 points with the Blast weapon?

Hell yes, I'll take six please. Footslogging Orks and blob IG just met their new least favorite people. . .

BeRzErKeR wrote:They're only 30 points with the Blast weapon?

Hell yes, I'll take six please. Footslogging Orks and blob IG just met their new least favorite people. . .

1 to 5 per squad, i'd rather take one squad of 5 than 2 squads of 3, but that's personal preference.

Hopefully they'll be released in a 3-pack comparable to space marine bikers, or even better a like Reaver jetbikes from DE (which are about $10 USD cheaper than marine bikes)

I seriously think Tomb Blades will replace Destroyers. I'm going to try the shadowloom/particle beamer combination at first. The squad can spend the first couple of turns turbo-boosting waiting for an infantry target, and then they drop 5 blast on them safely out of charge and rapid fire range.

I might try out a squad with the gauss blasters, but they have to get a little too close for my liking in order to use them most effectively. I'm still on the fence about tesla weapons because I've never seen them used to great effect. A handful of infantry destroying blasts carried by a very fast unit for 200 points could be amazing...especially when you compare them to their counterparts in other armies.

Marshal_Gus wrote:I seriously think Tomb Blades will replace Destroyers. I'm going to try the shadowloom/particle beamer combination at first. The squad can spend the first couple of turns turbo-boosting waiting for an infantry target, and then they drop 5 blast on them safely out of charge and rapid fire range.

I might try out a squad with the gauss blasters, but they have to get a little too close for my liking in order to use them most effectively. I'm still on the fence about tesla weapons because I've never seen them used to great effect. A handful of infantry destroying blasts carried by a very fast unit for 200 points could be amazing...especially when you compare them to their counterparts in other armies.

Tesla is pretty good on the destructors since it's s7 and can arc to multiple units, and comes twin-linked. I would need to see tesla cannons come on tomb blades rather than carbines to make me consider taking that weapon option. 5 shots at s5 can be done better with immortals for cheaper, and works far better when the unit can take more than 5 guns. Honestly the beamer is a no-brainer weapon choice for me when it comes to the blades.

I'm coming around to the idea........

Interesting note about twinlinking Tesla:

With BS4:
5(1÷6)×3 + 5(1÷2) + 5(1÷3)(1÷6)×3 + 5(1÷3)(1÷2) = 6.6667 Hits
(T-hits) (NonT-Hits) (T-hits After Re-roll) (Non T-hits after re-roll)

With BS5:
5(1÷6)×3 + 5(2÷3) + 5(1÷6)(1÷6)×3 + 5(1÷6)(2÷3) = 6.805 Hits

So in short, don't get the BS5 if your going Tesla.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also since someone mentioned immortals, 6 Immortals with Tesla (102pts) will average 6 hits, while the aforementioned 5 TB's (100pts) will average 6.667. Not bad considering they are more manoeuvrable, although a tad less survivable and not scoring.

Particle Caster Tomb Blades are fantastic. T5 with 4+ save and Resurrection is tremendously tough and throwing around S6 blasts can kill anything (except AV 13 vehicles).

They are well worth it except against one case. If you're fighting an army that features a lot of AP 4 fire, Tomb Blades are terrible. They'll die very fast.

DarknessEternal wrote:Particle Caster Tomb Blades are fantastic. T5 with 4+ save and Resurrection is tremendously tough and throwing around S6 blasts can kill anything (except AV 13 vehicles).

They are well worth it except against one case. If you're fighting an army that features a lot of AP 4 fire, Tomb Blades are terrible. They'll die very fast.

Of course if you shadowloom them and keep them covered (even without turbo boosting) they become fantastically resilient. 3+ cover 5+ RP against every non template weapon in the game is pretty nails.

Edit: originally said nub scope, meant shadowloom.

Praxiss wrote:
As an aside - i dont see a lot of people pushing tesla as much as they did before release - is it not up to the hype?

Its up to the hype, but its best on immortals and vehicle platforms.

Tomb Blades can have those blast weapons or the Gauss weaponry which fits a different niche. Relentless also makes Gauss very attractive.

You will see lots of Tesla, just not on Tomb Blades.

Str 6 AP who cares since everyone has cover or Armor saves blast templates are great. I love my Grotzookas Kanz but would love them more if the were jetbikes with 1/3 auto repair for cheap!

Naked with the blast template would be the way to go. Max squads means harder to wipe out the squad in one round of shooting which means better surviability with RP.

Now when I math hammered it out, I think I found that BS3 was actually more effective than BS 4 for Tesla, as the 50% chance for a 16.67% chance of 3 hits on the misses made for a statistically significant amount of more hits.

My opponents won't let me re-roll hits though! *laughs*

Regardless, the Particle Beamers is the way to go. If you've ever seen a unit of 3 Killa Kanz with Grotzooka's you can see the possible outcomes here.

However, contending with Wraiths and Scarabs, which are both far-far superior heavy support choices, all the Tomb Blades really do is help educate people on why Destroyers are terrible.

loreweaver wrote:Now when I math hammered it out, I think I found that BS3 was actually more effective than BS 4 for Tesla, as the 50% chance for a 16.67% chance of 3 hits on the misses made for a statistically significant amount of more hits.

My opponents won't let me re-roll hits though! *laughs*

Regardless, the Particle Beamers is the way to go. If you've ever seen a unit of 3 Killa Kanz with Grotzooka's you can see the possible outcomes here.

However, contending with Wraiths and Scarabs, which are both far-far superior heavy support choices, all the Tomb Blades really do is help educate people on why Destroyers are terrible.

They are fast attack choices, and I would say Wraiths and Scarabs are good, not far far superior. Also I and many others (azezel if I'm not mistaken) have used the 3 HDs 2 Ds setup for destroyers quite effectively. It gives you a mobile antitank platform that's considerably more resilient then their Destruction Cryptek counterparts. So please, educate many on how bad Destroyers are . (unless you were jsut talking about non heavy Destroyers, in which I would counter they have point for point one of the best MeQ killing guns in the game, provided your opponent doesn't have cover, so I would describe their effectiveness as conditional, rather then terrible).

ShadarLogoth wrote:So please, educate many on how bad Destroyers are . (unless you were jsut talking about non heavy Destroyers, in which I would counter they have point for point one of the best MeQ killing guns in the game, provided your opponent doesn't have cover, so I would describe their effectiveness as conditional, rather then terrible).

The unit you speak of is 180 + 80 points

That's 40 points shy of 2 units of 10 scarabs. Those Scarabs can assault almost anything on the board on turn two, and are just as resilient to most shooting, especially if they can nab a cover save (3++, w00t).

My problem with Destroyers isn't so much that they're exceedingly average, it's the points cost vs other choices in the fast attack section. If in 6th, preferred enemy means you re-roll misses with ranged weapons... then suddenly they're really good again (mmmm... twin linked S5 AP3 Assault 2 guass and S9 AP2 Assault 1 Guass, tasty).

However, as it stands today, I suspect you'd see better performance for less points out of any of the other 3 Fast Attack choices in the codex, also, all 3 would be able to fulfill the same role better (save the tomb blades vs AV 12+)

My problem with Destroyers, 40 points, 1 wound, 3+ save. My problem with Heavy Destroyers, 60pts, 1 wound, 3+ save. That's a lot of points for a 1 wound model. That unit gets expensive quickly, and dies embarrassingly to something as meager as bolter fire.

For shambling hordes, the robot skeletons sure have a full fast attack slot.

It's too bad there are such easy comparison to the Destroyer or the Immortal, but Tomb Blades really stand out as an aggressively costed, versatile, cutesy unit.

The turbo boost screen really reminds me of a turn of night fighting. Even without the blasts they strike me as immortals that don't get dragged into fights. I guess that's why they keep their numbers so low.

Destroyers (and other expensive infantry of all kinds in this book) seem really pigeon hole'd, usually vs heavy infantry or armor. It's nice to see a unit that has options and can handle a horde without much support.

Really when I look at them, I myself having way easier decisions about where to fire the destructors.

Praxiss wrote:I'm coming around to the idea........

Goodo

I personally cannot wait to drop 5 templates on my friends Blood Claw units or just boost them up to Long Fangs and blast them to bits.
And of course drop those 5 templates on groups of Gaunts or a Carni haha