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First, not sure if this belongs here or in the Tactics forum. If in the wrong place, can the mods please move it to the correct forum, thanks!

Let me first start off by saying that I am very new to the hobby, only played 2 games so far with the AoBR starter set and had a blast. I went ahead and choose CSM as my first army, I just love the look, feel, and fluff, but i digress.

All of the lists that I have been looking at almost always have 2 DP HQs with MoS, Lash, and Wings. I understand that they are good, but are the other HQs really just not worth it?

Do DPs work just as well in lower point games? My friend and I usually only play 500-750 point games, sometimes 1000, just because of time and location. I sometimes see the Sorcerer used for the same type of effect.

Are all of the independent characters garbage? I would think that Abbadon would be great in higher points games, but I hardly ever see a list with him, or any of the other ICs.

Thanks for the input guys.

It depends entirely on how you like to play.

In most competitive builds, you will see either 2 Lash princes or 2 MoN princes all with wings.

Although, some player prefer to use Sorcerers with Lash. They are easier to hide and not shabby at all in assault.

Personally, I run a Chaos Lord with MoS and Daemon Weapon with a Sorcerer with Lash and a decked out squad of Chosen in a rhino. It may not be a true deathstar, but it can be very nasty with all those I5/6 power weapon wounds.

Genrally, if you play for fun then anything goes. If you're a more serious gamer, you'd be best with DPs or Sorcerers.

Iranna.

Thanks! As of right now I just really enjoy painting the minis, and playing is second. As I like the models for the HQs, I will most likely buy all of them over time and paint them up and give them a try. But your statement pretty much cements what I have seen here and elsewhere as far as lists go for CSM armies.

I perfer lords myself because I can hide them in squads unlike my deamon prince which likes to draw fire away from my advancing tanks . Alot of fire.

epil wrote:I perfer lords myself because I can hide them in squads unlike my deamon prince which likes to draw fire away from my advancing tanks . Alot of fire.

This is the main thing I hear for why people opt for the Sorcerer, to stick him in a transport, and still be able to use lash.

For someone very new you seem to have a good understanding of the game...
Very well done. Don't hesitate to ask if you get stuck.

I field a Termi Sorcerer lord usually with wind and/or gift of chaos. It's not efficient at all, but he's a fun model to field and he really can wreck the enemy if it's done right.

Short answer:

Yes.

tyro_neophyte wrote:

epil wrote:I perfer lords myself because I can hide them in squads unlike my deamon prince which likes to draw fire away from my advancing tanks . Alot of fire.

This is the main thing I hear for why people opt for the Sorcerer, to stick him in a transport, and still be able to use lash.

Unfortunately, hiding them in the squad is the ONLY thing they get. Meanwhile DPs get both close combat power AND the option of psychic powers, along with +WS (which matters against WS3 models), and a bunch of other statline goodies for practically no increase in cost.

Unless there's something tricksey, or you really want one of the special characters, then yeah...

purplefood wrote:For someone very new you seem to have a good understanding of the game...
Very well done. Don't hesitate to ask if you get stuck.

Haha, thanks! I've watched many battle reports and have read the rulebook cover to cover about 10 times now, and the CSM codex many times as well. I understand the rules and the mechanics of the game just fine, its the tactics part that is killing me right now lol. But thanks for all of the advice so far guys, really appreciate it!

I've always heard the best and most competitive CSM army is x2 Daemon Princes and Plague Marines. I find that boring as hell though.

It's just the min max theory behind the codex as to why players use demon prince. You can have just as strong, if not stronger results with a lord that has a demon weapon, or a sorcerer, or one of the named HQ's.

Personally, I run the following:

Lord with jump pack, demon weapon, and mark of khorne/nurgle/tzneetch/slanessh
Sorcerer with anything but doombolt and bolt of tzneetch
Demon prince with wings, warptime, and mark of nurgle OR mark of tzneetch with winds of chaos as well
Typhus

I don't run anything else often enough to mention. I have beaten dual lash demon prince lists without using them myself, and anything else nasty.

The real reason lash is so effective is not simply the fact that it pulls your enemies models into range, but the fact that you can reposition them.

Imagine this: dual lash princes or sorceres lash two units of terminators forward and in a cluster, as if they had deep striked into the field. The player than has 3 vindicators with demonic possession that fire at the two units, blowing them to tiny pieces. For something like 750-ish points, you have excellent synergy and can destroy anything that isn't a vehicle with impunity, and being very cost effective at the same time. Nothing else in the codex can do so.

But a smart player won't let it happen. Furthermore with the massive amounts of anti-psychic stuff the newer armies have, relying on lash gets harder. At the end of the day, play what you like, and how you want it to work. Just make sure your enjoying the game.

Khorne Lord with Daemon Weapon or lighting claws as always been my de facta.

HassTheEverliving wrote:Khorne Lord with Daemon Weapon or lighting claws as always been my de facta.

Daemon weapons on Khorne Lords are so so cool, but there's too much chance of hurting yourself and whiffing all attacks. The randomness is just too unreliable, but does have the potential of being awesome. I prefer undivided since it's a little more reliable and you get strength 5, which is important for doling out wounds.

Daemon Princes are the go-to HQ for Chaos, combining the psychic powers of sorcerers with the combat prowess of lords with extra bonuses. I like Chaos Lords a lot though, even though they're nowhere near as good for the points.