Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I was just thinking, would I be able to feild an old figurein a battle? I was planing on creating a few broods of hunter slayers with a second(or first, as i do noy know!) edition carnifex.if not

there is no real reason why not.
I've got RT era models in some of my armies.

Any old 40k models are always acceptable.

If you plan to enter your army into a tournament, check with the TO as they may not allow certain old models to be used due to size/LOS issues/etc.

The old Carnifex is one, as the old model is significantly smaller than the new one.

For general play, most people would not have an issue.

I have heard mixed results on this question:

Firstly, it is legal by the book because they are citadel models. The dissenting opinion is from people who claim(often rightly so) that the older models will interact with the game differently than the current models because of size.

I personally believe that if you are doing it because you like the older model better you are in the clear. However, if you are doing it because the model is smaller and are looking for an advantage, shame on you.

-cgmckenzie

Good lord! Seriously!?!?? How on earth could anyone make a case that you couldn't use older, legal, figures? Sure, for instance the old Avatar is silly-small. But it is/was the official GW representation of their idea.

If someone *really* wants to go to the trouble of creating am entire army of older figures, I say power to 'em!

'Course I also have quite a few RT-era figures (armies) in my collection, so I'm probably biased. But still...

Valete,

JohnS

All the infantry in one of my IG armies are older RT-era IG, sentinels are all eggs-on-legs. The 2nd IG army is converted from older Lizardmen models, to include old slann as the Psyker Battle Squad (Thanks John!). The only Marines I own are all old beekies and old metal termies. Yet another 'army' is all old Genestealer Cult models (ued to use Lost and Damned, now, mayube Orks codex). My Nids and Eldar wee also all oder models, but had to clear some stuff out so they're gone. And I've never had a problem fielding any of them in GW GTs, GW sponsored tournies, locally sponsored tournies, or open play at either GW stores or independent retailers.

Most people wont have a problem, usually it seems when someone brings old models its kinda cool and people like seeing them. This year at Nanocon there was a guy who had a bunch of old predator models and some other ones. On the other hand theres a player I know who fields terminators and he uses a mixed group of one old termi and 2-3 new ones, he uses the old one with the small base to determine DS location and the others get placed around it, ive seen a few people who have raised issues with this practice though legal it does anger some people.

If you are not using them to abuse size differences most people will think its cool, if your clearly using it to gain an advantage then people may call it into question.

I don't see a problem with using older models, but I feel that you should have to use the current base sizes for them. So for example if the RT avatar of khaine had a smaller base than the current one, you should mount it on the base that the current edition model is using.

Mechanized Space Corps wrote:I don't see a problem with using older models, but I feel that you should have to use the current base sizes for them. So for example if the RT avatar of khaine had a smaller base than the current one, you should mount it on the base that the current edition model is using.

Some people are unwilling to re-base models because of the effort they placed into the original base, that and that would actually be against the rules.

Except then you are not using the base supplied with the model and could be seen as modeling for advantage. I have no problem however with people trying to get an advintage by using RT models.

It's all fun and games until someone brings out the RT era Eldar Avatar, and ends up with a monstrous creature that can get cover by standing behind a Guardian model.

solkan wrote:It's all fun and games until someone brings out the RT era Eldar Avatar, and ends up with a monstrous creature that can get cover by standing behind a Guardian model.

Not that he needs it with his 4++ built in

I think using older models is fine. I do have a problem with mixing them with newer models in the same unit. I would definately call over a TO in the situation that was raised above with the terminators. I would demand that the player use a figure that represents the majority of the unit rather than the lone "small" figure. What he is doing isn't modelling for advantage but it still smacks of cheating to me.
I have a friend with the old RT Dreadnaughts and Landspeeder and I don't mind playing with him. And it is fun (and sometimes frustrating) seeing the situations that they can get into.

By default I have no problem with using old models, someone is selling a squad of original necron immortals and I am very tempted to get them just because they look cool.

It comes down to the use of old models to me, if you are using old models because they look cool and you have them then awesome old models, if you are using the old models to gain a tactical advantage in the game then I have problems with it.

The biggest problem comes when mixing new and old models for advantage - e.g. hiding smaller old models behind the larger new version of the same model when this would not normally be possible.

If it's just because you like the models then go for it!

Do check with the TO at any tournament you may attend though, some are a bit touchy about it.

TheAvengingKnee wrote:

Mechanized Space Corps wrote:I don't see a problem with using older models, but I feel that you should have to use the current base sizes for them. So for example if the RT avatar of khaine had a smaller base than the current one, you should mount it on the base that the current edition model is using.

Some people are unwilling to re-base models because of the effort they placed into the original base, that and that would actually be against the rules.

Agreed. I have 2nd edition Termies that fit nicely in my regular slotted case.

The base thing can be tricky. I have old heavy weapons teams. I Just place the 2 25mm bases onto the 60mm one.
I've had someone get pissy over my Steel Legion HB teams because they are so low but LOS works both ways eh?

Old figures just make you cooler as a gamer, there's no problem fielding them. But base sizes can be an issue. in 3rd and 4th edition of 40k Terminator models came on 25mm bases, now they come on 40mm bases. Just make sure they're based properly and there should be no problem.

s.j.mccartney wrote:Old figures just make you cooler as a gamer, there's no problem fielding them. But base sizes can be an issue. in 3rd and 4th edition of 40k Terminator models came on 25mm bases, now they come on 40mm bases. Just make sure they're based properly and there should be no problem.

You mean properly, as in on the bases they came with, right? Because that's what the rules require.

25mm base terminators stay on 25mm bases. You can re-base them if you want (because most people won't complain) but you are by no means required to re-base them.

I think you'd save yourself a lot of trouble in tournaments if you based your models properly. And by properly I mean on the types of bases that the new equivelant of the models are supplied with.

I wouldn't be that desperate for an advantage to field terminators on small bases. It sounds like you'd not make many friends trying to pull that trick...

s.j.mccartney wrote:I think you'd save yourself a lot of trouble in tournaments if you based your models properly. And by properly I mean on the types of bases that the new equivelant of the models are supplied with.

I wouldn't be that desperate for an advantage to field terminators on small bases. It sounds like you'd not make many friends trying to pull that trick...

It's not a trick. It's what the rules require.

Which is why I love my old nids on square bases.

s.j.mccartney wrote:I think you'd save yourself a lot of trouble in tournaments if you based your models properly. And by properly I mean on the types of bases that the new equivelant of the models are supplied with.

But that would be cheating since the rules require you to put them on the base they came with.................... My RT IG hevy weapons are on 25mm bases, and I've fielded them in multiple GW US GTs (back when they had them) with no problems or complaints. I only field the gunner as a 2-wound model. I could put them on a larger base, but asstated, without prior consent from your opponent, it's cheating to do so. And I also personally consider it (changing to a larger base) modelling for an advantage, since it's a disadvantage for my HW 'team' to be a single model n a small base. So that would be TWO rules I'm breaking if I rebase them.

To be frank, no matter what the rules say you're going to end up with something different from tournament to tournament.

Afterall, there's absolutely no rule saying objectives have to be on the tabe literally (right on the surface level) as opposed to being up in a piece of terrain as it is technically still on table, but many, many, MANY tourneys flat out say they have to be along with other stipulations,adjsutments, etc.

Why?-- perceived fairness (and the fact money is at stake both for players buying in and the store owners wanting to make sure players have a good time and come back).

Perhaps at GW this and GW that it's never been an issue but I can tell you now I've seen people flat out told to get lost for such modeling hijinks comparable to the terminator deployment trick when they were unwilling to change or substitute (even when offered subs from the host facility).

It seems cute and funny, and technically legal, and THEN you have people mounting side sponson on top of vehicles and other strange things with the kits ... or really.. a whole lot of options with the orks,etc. and blammo it's out of hand.

I personally feel it's one thing when you at least do them in whole squads of 'old models' or the off old IC or MC,etc and another when you try and engage in what appears (read:appears) to be blatant dickery using mixed squads for rules advantage.

...and in the end, often times, it's those sort of feelings that matter most in an environment dealing with many players.

SilverMK2 wrote:If you plan to enter your army into a tournament, check with the TO as they may not allow certain old models to be used due to size/LOS issues/etc.

The old Carnifex is one, as the old model is significantly smaller than the new one.

For general play, most people would not have an issue.

I actualy want it because it is worth a fiver and new 1 is worth £31. good ol ebay selling stuff for low prices.