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Is the imperium of man democratic or is it run by dictators? I think the imperium is run by dictators as I played the game space marine and it made out to me that the imperium is ran by dictators but I have not reading any 40k books apart from a few codexs so I cant be sure.

Umm. Oligarchal Bureaucracy. Dictator would imply one single figure running from the top. At the planetary level, this may be true but at the Imperium level things are run by High Lords with representatives of all the major organizations on it.

So basically, the heads of all the big orgs in the Imperium run things.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
"The High Lords of Terra collectively form the Council of the High Lords of Terra, also known as the Senatorum Imperialis. The Senatorum is an Imperial governing body of twelve leaders of the most powerful organisations of the Imperium. This body rules the Imperium in the Emperor's name. "

"The following nine offices are almost always represented as High Lords:

The Master of the Administratum
The Inquisitorial Representativea
The Ecclesiarch of the Adeptus Ministorum
The Fabricator-General of the Adeptus Mechanicus
The Grand Provost Marshal of the Adeptus Arbites
The Paternoval Envoy of the Navigators
The Master of the Astronomican
The Grand Master of the Officio Assassinorum
The Master of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica

The remaining three positions are most likely to be filled from among the following powerful leaders:
Lord Commander of the Segmentum Solar
Lord Commander Militant of the Imperial Guard
Cardinal(s) of the Holy Synod of Terra
The Abbess Sanctorum of the Adepta Sororitas
Captain-General of the Adeptus Custodes
Chancellor of the Estate Imperium
The Speaker for the Chartist Captains
Lord High Admiral of the Imperial Navy"

Ironically, the Council does not care how individual "member worlds" of the Imperium govern themselves, so that whilst the vast majority is a hereditary feudal hierarchy with a Lord-Governor at the head, it would not be impossible to have a demoracy elected by the people ... but said planetary government would still have to fulfill each and every demand of the Imperium and never be allowed to miss paying their tithe in men and resources, so I do not think it would be practical on a long term basis (the demands placed upon Imperial worlds are rather brutal).

as above, allthough i would say it has a theocratic element.

Lynata wrote:Ironically, the Council does not care how individual "member worlds" of the Imperium govern themselves, so that whilst the vast majority is a hereditary feudal hierarchy with a Lord-Governor at the head, it would not be impossible to have a demoracy elected by the people ... but said planetary government would still have to fulfill each and every demand of the Imperium and never be allowed to miss paying their tithe in men and resources, so I do not think it would be practical on a long term basis (the demands placed upon Imperial worlds are rather brutal).

This. Your democracy can certainly vote on unimportant things, but Emperor help you if you withhold tithes. Ask the Astral Claws how that works out.

Lynata wrote:Ironically, the Council does not care how individual "member worlds" of the Imperium govern themselves, so that whilst the vast majority is a hereditary feudal hierarchy with a Lord-Governor at the head, it would not be impossible to have a demoracy elected by the people ... but said planetary government would still have to fulfill each and every demand of the Imperium and never be allowed to miss paying their tithe in men and resources, so I do not think it would be practical on a long term basis (the demands placed upon Imperial worlds are rather brutal).

The United States of America has a similar system to that? And that's democratic.
No, wait...

For future questions, don't forget that everything in 40k is dystopian. So no democracies and no human rights unless it is monstrously corrupt

CuddlySquig wrote:For future questions, don't forget that everything in 40k is dystopian. So no democracies and no human rights unless it is monstrously corrupt

Refuted so many times in so many places in the fluff it isn't even funny.

The Imperium requires: your tithes, your psykers, that you worship the Emperor, bow to the inquisition and arbites. That's it. Beyond that the world can have any form of government imaginable.

What is theocratic?

I've always imagined ultramar as being pretty utopian (Calgar is in charge but other than defense delegates all other responsibility to elected leaders of each world and of course the marines have veto power over anything but generally don't use it)

pretre wrote:Umm. Oligarchal Bureaucracy. Dictator would imply one single figure running from the top. At the planetary level, this may be true but at the Imperium level things are run by High Lords with representatives of all the major organizations on it.

So basically, the heads of all the big orgs in the Imperium run things.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
"The High Lords of Terra collectively form the Council of the High Lords of Terra, also known as the Senatorum Imperialis. The Senatorum is an Imperial governing body of twelve leaders of the most powerful organisations of the Imperium. This body rules the Imperium in the Emperor's name. "

"The following nine offices are almost always represented as High Lords:

The Master of the Administratum
The Inquisitorial Representativea
The Ecclesiarch of the Adeptus Ministorum
The Fabricator-General of the Adeptus Mechanicus
The Grand Provost Marshal of the Adeptus Arbites
The Paternoval Envoy of the Navigators
The Master of the Astronomican
The Grand Master of the Officio Assassinorum
The Master of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica

The remaining three positions are most likely to be filled from among the following powerful leaders:
Lord Commander of the Segmentum Solar
Lord Commander Militant of the Imperial Guard
Cardinal(s) of the Holy Synod of Terra
The Abbess Sanctorum of the Adepta Sororitas
Captain-General of the Adeptus Custodes
Chancellor of the Estate Imperium
The Speaker for the Chartist Captains
Lord High Admiral of the Imperial Navy"

+10 to this.
And Emperor is not a dictator - he is a living God alive for more then 49.000 years.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Joey wrote:
The United States of America has a similar system to that? And that's democratic.
No, wait...

USA is not a democracy - but a republic. It is not rule by the people but by law and senate.

XclusivevVorTex wrote:What is theocratic?

Theocratic just means the government and the church is the same entity. The problem with saying "theocratic" in this instance is it doesn't TELL you anything. A theocracy could also be a democracy, a dictatorship, a republic, or any other form of government.

It's essentially a dictatorship, although it has more than one leader. There is no election, and acting in the wrong is normally punished by being sent to war or death.

Brother Coa wrote:
+10 to this.
And Emperor is not a dictator - he is a living God alive for more then 49.000 years.

He is a halfdead psyker and tyrant who is now worshipped as a god

Said like a true slave of the Chaos Gods.

Sorry if I get this wrong but isnt dictatorship goverment by one person or a small group of people not just goverment by one person?

Brother Coa wrote:Said like a true slave of the Chaos Gods.

Spoken like a true slave of the carriongod

XclusivevVorTex wrote:Sorry if I get this wrong but isnt dictatorship goverment by one person or a small group of people not just goverment by one person?

Short answer-no.
Long answer-It depends.

It certainly isn't a democracy, but it ain't a dictatorship either. I'd say its an oligarchy. Some unelected bureaucrats control everything.

In general, think Byzantine Empire plus medioeval Heiliges Römisches Reich plus 1500s-1600s Europe with a bit of Soviet Union thrown in for good measure.

The end result: A crushing bureaucracy, an extremely complex labyrinth of authorities, legal systems, loyalties and powers-that-be, and the submission to a pervasive religious-political faith.

As others have pointed out, the Imperium is not a centralized government, so democracy is probably an option for certain planets, stations and outposts. That said, failure to meet Imperial tithes or to comply with imperial decrees, or slight deviations on the Imperial Creed might end in swift punishment for the offending world, be it democratic or not.

riplikash wrote:

XclusivevVorTex wrote:What is theocratic?

Theocratic just means the government and the church is the same entity. The problem with saying "theocratic" in this instance is it doesn't TELL you anything. A theocracy could also be a democracy, a dictatorship, a republic, or any other form of government.

true. however it does give you an idea what a governments social policies will be, for example no freedom of religion.

KingDeath wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:
+10 to this.
And Emperor is not a dictator - he is a living God alive for more then 49.000 years.

He is a halfdead psyker and tyrant who is now worshipped as a god

well actually he has no actual power in the imperial government and he has no seat on the high council so hes not a tyrant per-say. perhaps the head of state, but certainly not the head of government.

XclusivevVorTex wrote:Sorry if I get this wrong but isnt dictatorship goverment by one person or a small group of people not just goverment by one person?

nope. what your thinking of is a totalitarian government

It's in fact hard to explain, since noone has the ultimate power over everyone - not even the Emperor.

Emperor rules all, but because of his condition High Lords Rule all. But even they can't be everywhere so they let many Planetary Governors to rule as they want, they also don't have the ultimate authority over Imperial Church, the Mechanicus, the Inquisition and Adeptus Astartes.

In return, all those powers don't have the ultimate rule over all others listed here. Imeprum is in fact very balanced oligarchy, where few leaders have some decree of rule over some degree of Imperium.

Imperium is a decentralized authoritarian theocracy. Best way to sum it up imo. The High Lords determine broad policy, this policy is enforced by the Segmentum agencies for all Imperial organizations and then further refined to meet with the context of the Sector/Sub-Sector/System levels where finally the local Planetary Governors are expected to implement and adhere to this policy. Nowhere is this policy determined by the average folk.

It certainly isn't democratic in any way, quite the opposite. No concept of civil rights exist and a secret police, the Inquisition, exists to enforce the status quo in cooperation with other security agencies (Arbites, Sororitas, etc.). Free speech/media are unheard of and if you go around with a sign saying the Emperor is a stupid corpse, you're in big gak.

But at the same time if a democracy exists in the Imperium, they wouldn't care much as long as they behaved themselves. The Imperium is repressive only to the extent that it demands unconditional worship of the Imperial Cult, tithes, stability, and conscripts. This manifests into slavery, genocide, mass-executions, autocracy, etc. but at the same time can also exist as a limited democracy that adheres to the demands of Terra. However I don't really know of any true "democratic" Imperial planets. The most common form of planetary government in the Imperium seem to be either hereditary autocracies or PDF military dictatorships.

Civil rights cannot exist in the Imeprium.

Because they lead to civil wars and anarchy as everybody would want something for themselves and not for the sake of their own survival.

Law system as we have it today can't exist because of the sheer number of people alive per planet. That is why Arbites act as police and justice department, because all other form would lead to total chaos and collapse of the system.

Imperium have a simple choice - control Humanity and try to survive or let them do whatever they want ( like a spoil brat ) and you will surely extinct.

I'd say its closest to an Empire run by a Fascist regime.

The strong central government is a totalitarian, single-party system that relies on nationalism and militarism to govern. But, it is composed of many individual states that retain quite a bit of autonomy in their local government.

Brother Coa wrote:Civil rights cannot exist in the Imeprium.

Because they lead to civil wars and anarchy as everybody would want something for themselves and not for the sake of their own survival.

Law system as we have it today can't exist because of the sheer number of people alive per planet. That is why Arbites act as police and justice department, because all other form would lead to total chaos and collapse of the system.

Imperium have a simple choice - control Humanity and try to survive or let them do whatever they want ( like a spoil brat ) and you will surely extinct.

Institutionalized civil rights cannot exist at any high level, but they certainly can exist on the planetary level. As long as they pay the tithe, worship the Emperor, and bow to inquisitorial and arbites authority when necessary planets are free to govern themselves however they choose. Arbites are not "the police", they are more like the FBI. They don't get involved in crimes unless they threaten at a larger than planetary scale or cross juristictions.

Grakmar wrote:I'd say its closest to an Empire run by a Fascist regime.

The strong central government is a totalitarian, single-party system that relies on nationalism and militarism to govern. But, it is composed of many individual states that retain quite a bit of autonomy in their local government.

They really aren't very much like a fascist regime either. The central government doesn't interfere much in peoples day to day lives and private enterprise abounds. Most damingly it does not organize many public works projects, mainly leaving those to individual organizations organizing their own funding. And the government is hardly single party, it is ridiculously factional. Again, the Imperiums main concern is the payment of tithes.

Really except for the uniform flavor and some of the rhetoric the Imperium doesn't resemble a fascist government much at all.

The Imperium of Man is pretty much a true fascist system, in that governance is controlled by the heads of business and industry, police, military and religious orders. This then combines the pillars of society into a single-party system, with orders originating from up top, and descending down through the ranks, supported and enforced by the other pillars, to the citizens.

Of course, in a place as large as the Imperium, there will be conflicts between these pillars, but rarely are these conflicts of a scale that directly impacts the ruling body. The one time this happened saw the reformation and reorganization of the religious body.

riplikash wrote:
Institutionalized civil rights cannot exist at any high level, but they certainly can exist on the planetary level. As long as they pay the tithe, worship the Emperor, and bow to inquisitorial and arbites authority when necessary planets are free to govern themselves however they choose. Arbites are not "the police", they are more like the FBI. They don't get involved in crimes unless they threaten at a larger than planetary scale or cross juristictions.

Witch they do, Imperial Citizen is let to do whatever he want after he pay the tithe, work and venerate the Emperor.
And if you didn't know - Arbites are based on Judge Dred. They are police, judge, jury and executioners in one.

There is no private enterprise in the Imperium, to whoever said it. the government employ you, feed you, clothe you and teach you. the only private industry is criminal.

Psienesis wrote:The Imperium of Man is pretty much a true fascist system, in that governance is controlled by the heads of business and industry, police, military and religious orders.

I just don't see this. Firstly, this sounds backwards. In a fascist government the businesses, military, police, and religious orders are under the direction of the government. This also isn't particularly true of the Imperium, at least any more so than it is true of any country.

This then combines the pillars of society into a single-party system, with orders originating from up top, and descending down through the ranks, supported and enforced by the other pillars, to the citizens.

If the Imperium is a single party system then the USA is a single party system, simply because every member of the government is a member of the 'party' of the government. The Imperium's government works nothing like a truly one party system. There is intense philosophical, ideological, and political division. Political, religious, and military factions continuously vie with each-other for power. There are numerous political parties within the administratum, and every other organization in the Imperium. One of the main responsibilities of the ministrotum is to try and chronicle all the different cults and beliefs out there so they will technically be 'official', because the only real requirement is to worship the Emperor in some one.

The military is about as far from fascist as you can get, being intesley segregated with tons of beurocracy involved in getting anything done.

Their power structure is fractured to prevent any single group or individual from being able to have much power. That is the opposite of fascism. Local governments have near total control over their citizens laws and way of life. That is also the opposite of fascism.

Of course, in a place as large as the Imperium, there will be conflicts between these pillars, but rarely are these conflicts of a scale that directly impacts the ruling body. The one time this happened saw the reformation and reorganization of the religious body.

But it has happened dozens of time at every level. The age of apostacy was just one example. The entire history of the Imperium is a story of infighting and conflict. It has been stated numerous times that the Imperiums number one threat is itself, because it is so divided and factional.

I get they look like fascists, but they don't conform to almost any fascist ideology.