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McNinja wrote:Probably declared extra non-canon because it makes the galaxy look like war isn't happening all of the time everywhere.

I never heard about that being declared non-cannon. And I actually read somewhere that some worlds in the Imperium never see any kind of warfare.
Witch is logical to me, there is no chance in hell that EVERY world in Imperium is under some kind of attack or siege at the moment. Most worlds in realm of Ultramar are in peace, for now.
Same goes for most Segmentum Solar worlds. Catachan is a death worlds, same as Krieg, but those worlds are still to be assaulted by some xeno force.
Most Imperial worlds are not under any kind of attack, yet. That woudl be logical thing to me because galaxy is vast and Imperium is stretch all over it.

Most of the serious fluff, that which isn't just advertising catch phrases and flavor, paints vast portions of the Imperium as being not at war. The troops have to come from somewhere, the food has to come from somewhere, weapons have to be manufactured somewhere, and conflicts have to start somewhere.

Look at the IA books, they describe peaceful planets descending into war. Look at most of the BL books, they describe the same. Ciaphas Cain goes to a planet falling under the influence of the Tau that might go to war, not one that already is. Even the Codexs describe previously peaceful planets descending into war. How can a war start if you are always at war? All the FFRPG's focus

"There is only war" describes the fact that the Imperium is constantly at war, not that every planet in the Imperium is constantly at war. Planets go for thousands of years without conflict.

And I get that the idea of a super invasive, authorative Imperium is fun, but that just isn't how Imperial rule is described. Time and again it is said that the Imperium only requires your tithes, your psykers, that you worship the Emperor, and that you bow to Inquisitorial/Arbites authority when necessary. Most worlds will never see and Inquisitor or Arbiter, they are the things of legends. Any kind of government can exist.

Now it being the grimdark universe it is, the lots of these worlds are horrible dictatorships or deathworlds, but it has been said many times that peacful agriworlds, paradise worlds, and any other world you can imagine exist somewhere.

i read a BL book a while ago where on finding a peaceful world full of humans, the Imperium then goes on to mechanise it and strip it of all its resources, then shuts up shop and leaves the entire population to descend into anarchy and poverty. it becomes apparent that the imperium does not let you run your world how you want it to. i understand that this might be stricter held in some areas than others, however for the imperium to work on the scale it does it needs to be tight-fisted and uncompromising for the most part.

If they Imperium needs your resources, it will have your resources. No if's, and's, or but's.

If they arn't requiring anything from you beyond the Tithe then you are free to do whatever you want, as long as you worship the Emperor and aknowledge Imperial Authority.

so they needed resources so very badly that they destroyed an entire planet? what about spreading it around a little?

Communisim is heresy

Brother Coa wrote:

McNinja wrote:Probably declared extra non-canon because it makes the galaxy look like war isn't happening all of the time everywhere.

I never heard about that being declared non-cannon.

That's because it wasn't said in the first place. That's like saying I haven't heard it said that Space Marines are NOT Menanites.

The worlds that are at peace in 40K are at peace the way America and Canada were at peace in WW2. Warfare wasn't happening on our soil but troops were still being shipped "overseas" in great numbers and other sacrifices had to be made.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

McNinja wrote:Probably declared extra non-canon because it makes the galaxy look like war isn't happening all of the time everywhere.

I never heard about that being declared non-cannon.

That's because it wasn't said in the first place. That's like saying I haven't heard it said that Space Marines are NOT Menanites.

The worlds that are at peace in 40K are at peace the way America and Canada were at peace in WW2. Warfare wasn't happening on our soil but troops were still being shipped "overseas" in great numbers and other sacrifices had to be made.

That is exactly true, but many claim every world everywhere is always at war. All of them contribute to the war effort, that is what the tithe is, but most of the worlds in the Imperium aren't going to be personally touched by war.

As for the Imperium rapidly stripping peaceful planets of resources to the point of ruin, well it definitely happens, but it is the exception, not the rule. There are several examples of it happening, but usually with a reason. Off the top of my head I remember beurocratic errors causing tithes to be set at too high a level and corrupt politicians being after something. But usually the Imperium takes a VERY long view of things, wanting to squeeze planets for millenia, not just a few short years.

The most likely reason for a planet to be totally strip mined within a few years is because there is an immediate shortage of resources needed to counter an enemy invasion. An emergency appropriation, definitly out of the ordinary.

Which then causes the planet to rebel and then you have your next war all ready to go.

It's not democratic...
Theocratic Oligarchy would seem to be the best descriptor...
Most planets have varying forms of government though they all pay the tithe and so the Imperium doesn't really care...

Grey Templar wrote:The most likely reason for a planet to be totally strip mined within a few years is because there is an immediate shortage of resources needed to counter an enemy invasion. An emergency appropriation, definitly out of the ordinary.

a reason was never given in the book. even if it was, leaving the population to fall into murder and barbarism is not the actions of a benevolent government.

I don't think anyone ever claimed the government was benevolent. Democratic doesn't mean benevolent governing and dictatorships aren't necessarily oppressive.

riplikash wrote:I don't think anyone ever claimed the government was benevolent. Democratic doesn't mean benevolent governing and dictatorships aren't necessarily oppressive.

I'm pretty sure you've criticised certain parties for seeing the Imperium as authoritarian and super-invasive. I'm not sure you can get more invasive than stripping a planet of its resources and then leaving it to die.

While that is true it is also an oversimplification. There are a lot of ways a government can be 'super-invasive'. Forcing people to join the state religion is also pretty invasive. So yes, there are areas where they are invasive.

But the Imperium isn't invasive when it comes to how planets are governed like a lot of people claim. That doesn't make them benevolent. A government being benevolent or not is not a function of the type of government it is or how invasive it is, any form of government can quickly go from benevolent to malevolent without any change in government type.

In fact the Imperiums non-invasiveness is a big reason why things like this can happen. They don't look closely into what is going on on planets and monitor everything as an invasive government would. 99% of the time only thing they care about is the tithe. If your tithe was set incorrectly, well too bad, you still have to pay the tithe.

Heavy handed and uncaring is not the same thing as invasive.