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My 11-year old got a boy of necron praetorians which I believe can also be built as lychguard. He's very excited about having them, but we're wondering as to the best way to build and use them. I am a fluffy gamer (though I enjoy playing in tournaments), so I'm not much use when it comes to giving tactical advice.

His current army is quite conventional based on the old dex and not really competitive (2 liths, 40 warriors, 5 destroyers, 5 wraiths, 2 spyders, some scarabs, d-lord with res orb, old lord with res orb). He does have a few things unpainted (3x heavy destroyers, some useless pariah's and a gizmo I'm going to modify into a triarch stalker)... he's also got Imotekh, Trazen and one cryptek. OH, and the zippy flying thing the overlord zooms around in (not yet built).

So... given that mish-mosh... how would it be best to use his box of praetorians? Which variant would you recommend and how would you pair them up with what he's got already? What he could get in the future is welcome advice too... but what he's already got would be much more useful).

More useful/competitive is preferred, but the rule of cool applies... he is 11 after all.

Thanks!
Gits

Personally, I think that the best use for that box set is to make Crypteks, extra lords and conversions for the variety of extra bits you need in your army. It just has so many good things in it that it is a great resource (I've seen spyders, wraiths, crypteks, lords, etc all made out of that box).

Although, you said he already has pariahs, so those could be used to make crypteks and lords anyways.

If you're going with just the actual unit, I personally think the shields make them really durable and nasty.

Hey pretre.... I wondered about that having read up a bit on older threads on dakka relating to these units. I'm afraid that looking at it as a cryptek source or bits box just will be a let down for him though.

I think he's leaning towards the lychguard as he loves the look of the shields and axes... and my thought was that the shields might make them more survivable (as with THSS termies)... but I'm not really up on the rules and I haven't seen a lot of commentary on the use of lychguard... which is why I was asking here.

Gitsplitta wrote:Hey pretre.... I wondered about that having read up a bit on older threads on dakka relating to these units. I'm afraid that looking at it as a cryptek source or bits box just will be a let down for him though.

I think he's leaning towards the lychguard as he loves the look of the shields and axes... and my thought was that the shields might make them more survivable (as with THSS termies)... but I'm not really up on the rules and I haven't seen a lot of commentary on the use of lychguard... which is why I was asking here.

From what I've heard, the Shields make them a lot more survivable and the blades account themselves pretty well in CC (S5 is nice). I think throwing a Warscythe lord in the squad will give them that extra edge against vehicles, if so desired. Could be a pretty punchy counter-assault unit.

Dispersion shield Lychguard is the way to go.

I would second the use for Lychguard with shield and axe. You can then use the rod of the covenants from the sets to make crypteks (just use some of those 40 warriors he has and do some arm swaps). To really fill out the cryptek I like to use the heads from the immortal box's but I don't think you would have to do it, just the big staff would help.

If going the lychguard route he really needs to think about how they are going to get around on the table. They need either a nightscythe, cryptek with veil of darkness, or Vargard Obyron to really make them mobile.

I think both S/B and Warscythe Lychguard can be relatively effective in an army list (I think Wraiths do most everything Lychguard do better). I think Sword and Board works best with a Warscythe/Orb Lord and walking up the board as a counter assault unit. I plan on using mine with Warsycthes escorting Nemesor and a Veil Cryptek as a bully unit. Nemesor provides an Orb and a 2+/3++ bullet soaker and the Cryptek provides mobility to go after squads without PWs. Nemesor can also provide Stealth or Furious Charge to them. However, I am going to magnetize my arms so I can try both methods.

I like 3/4 possible builds.

I think the most competetive out of the box is the Warscythe Lychguard, but they really need a Night Scythe to be super effective.

The Sword & Board Lychguard are hard to kill and fun to paint, but not super competetive.

The Praetorians with Void Blade and Particle Casters are a nice, quick, and tough entropic strike unit, but they need to be supported by a D-Lord w\ Orb.

The Praetorians with the rod are not as good, as they suffer from the lack of extra attack and the short range AP2 shot is too short to be reliable (I'd rather assault with the extra attack, and still get a S6 AP5 shot, and at longer range!)

Very interesting responses everyone, thank you.

Night scythes are problematic at the moment as I'm not sure I'm up for a scratch build. Without the dex in front of me, I assume the NS is a transport of some kind?

I've just recently discovered the value of having dedicated counter-charge units available, so that's an interesting option, especially for what will at least start as a small squad. Lot of interesting possibilities here... I'll spend some time in the dex based on the advice received so far and see if I can sort it all out.

A bit late, but I shall also throw in my n00bish opinion of Sword & Shield Lychguard instead of the Prætorians.

Not late at all Kodanshi... I'm still wide open to ideas. Just have to set some time aside to digest them & do my research.

Lychguard work well with an Overlord and an accompanying Cryptek upgraded to have Veil of Darkness.

I vote shield/sword Lychguard.

I used mine in two out of three games that I played this weekend (and the only reason I didn't use them in the third is because it was a 500 point game).

The 4++ is VERY useful. I have paired my 5 Lychguard up with a Res Orb/Warscythe/MSS/Phase Shifter Overlord with great success. They are a very sturdy CC unit that can hang with the best of them. The strength 7 warscythes are amazing, but the shield invulnerable save is so much more useful. S5 Power weapons bring the pain against almost every opponent your son will likely face. Assault Marines? No problem. Terminators? Tougher, but much easier to kill when their 2+ AS is taken out of the equation.

Shields + Warscythe toting Overlord has been a great combination for me. I typically run them with a Harbinger of Despair (packing a Veil) for mobility and tactical flexibility.

Heck, even the shot deflecting capability of the shield is useful. I killed two Blood Angels this past weekend by deflecting a Heavy Bolter round and a Melta Gun blast back into them.

Plus, THEY LOOK AWESOME

Okay so he has Trazyn the infinite BIG BIG BIG hint that you should use the sword and shield Lychguard. First of all Trazyn in combat is nothing to sneeze at with the wave ability for his staff. Second those lychguard are gonna make sure he gets there, Third he is a SCORING model. Pair that with the cryptek and veil and you have a very potent last-ditch-effort-take-or-contest-an-objective squad. As well just veil them in take out what you need, park on the objective and profit. PLUS points for looking super cool

I think the best use of the box is as a conversion box for crypteks and Lords as Finecast sucks so hard.

If I were to use them as intended I would go for Lychguards with shields as I can see them beeing much more interesting in 6th edition (if the leaked rules are true). Either way they apeal to me and my playstyle more than the other choises.

G. Whitenbeard wrote:I have paired my 5 Lychguard up with a Res Orb/Warscythe/MSS/Phase Shifter Overlord with great success. They are a very sturdy CC unit that can hang with the best of them. The strength 7 warscythes are amazing, but the shield invulnerable save is so much more useful. S5 Power weapons bring the pain against almost every opponent your son will likely face. Assault Marines? No problem. Terminators? Tougher, but much easier to kill when their 2+ AS is taken out of the equation.

Shields + Warscythe toting Overlord has been a great combination for me. I typically run them with a Harbinger of Despair (packing a Veil) for mobility and tactical flexibility.

Love to hear those war stories.... Great insights guys! Thanks for the tip on Trazen... I was wondering what we were going to do with him.

As well Trazyn has a surrogate rule where if he dies he can replace certain models on the board, so if he is lost in combat over at area x, he "warps" over to unit y and replaces a model. Lychguard are models that he can relplace

I got two boxes when they came out and made one squad of each and really have found that the Lychguard w/ S+S have been used far more frequently than the Praetorians. One reason is Praetorians even though I use them with the particle blaster/void blade are a deepstrike option that without a lord or cryptek accompanying them are really only good at causing damage to vehicles behind the lines. So I would go for the Lychguard with S+S over the warscythe even though the warscythe is an awesome weapon that sheild invul is just a life saver especially when attached with a cryptek and either Varguard Obyron or one of the other Lords.

DLord ww/RO and Praets with blades in casters is a fun unit to run, and looks secsie screaming across the field.

Damnt they move fast as well

In a Game I just played, the D-Lord Praetorian unit killed...
1) A Lash-Prince
2) A Second-Lash Prince
3) Squad from a popped transport
4) Unit of Terminators
5) Finished a unit of Plague Marines
6) Finished a unit of Daemons

That's a pretty impressive tally. How big was your squad?

Just the 5 Praetorians. I usually run it at 375 points, but I gave the D-Lord a 2+ save (So 390pts)

The Praetorians died about 1/2 way through the killing and the D-Lord did in the Termies, Plague Marines, and Daemons himself.

loreweaver wrote:Just the 5 Praetorians. I usually run it at 375 points, but I gave the D-Lord a 2+ save (So 390pts)

The Praetorians died about 1/2 way through the killing and the D-Lord did in the Termies, Plague Marines, and Daemons himself.

Yeah that's how I run them too, I generally grab the 2+. Lore highlights why it works so well, really if nothing else you get some really resilient soak wounds for the D-Lord who by himself can go into beast mode. Of course, wraiths can do this too, but personally I think the Praets are a more natural fit (plus they justify the cost of the RO, D-Lord by himself in a group of wraiths wouldn't benefit enough to take it).

Sword + Board all the way.
The ability to bounce shots back at people is pretty awesome too.
I have a friend who plays Templars.
His dread shot it's Lascannon at the Lychguard, bounced back and blew itself up.

Was hilarious to watch.
Painful, but hilarious.

Within 6 the dread could charge and tie up the unit forever unless a warscythe was in there. Really its the main weakness of sword and board, everything else is great.

As for me, I still prefer the fearless jumping praetorians with void blades. No inv save and no power weapons, but fearless is a big deal for a slow combat unit. As is the movement bonus. They pair very well with fearless wraiths, scarabs and spyders once your fast and heavy are full.

I just REALLY wish you could customize and have a mix of sword/board and warscythes :( If I could do that I'd be using lychguard a lot more often

So... really, what it seems is that under the right circumstances both builds are viable... you just have to be smart about how you use them. That's excellent news.


I want to thank everyone for their help with this matter. If you happen to think of, or experience a new way to use them (or have new successes), please feel free to post it. My son and I will review it from time to time to get ideas until we're good enough to come up with ideas on our own.

Gits