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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Madison, WI

Was playing a friendly game with a buddy last weekend when a situation came up I'd like some opinions on.


In essence, during my opponent's half of the turn... there was an assault going on that had been going on for a turn or so... and we both forgot to fight it. Later, during my half of the turn... he remembered the assault and insisted we go back and fight it.

What ensued was a spirited, lively and half tongue-in-cheek argument about what took precedence... fighting the assault or the fact that his turn and already ended and my turn was in-process by the time he remembered. My friend (detestable Xenos) said that you "could not ignore an assault in progress" and I (heroic Xenos) said that once that phase of the game has passed... it was over and you just considered it a push or missed opportunity as you would for forgetting movement or shooting. Now, given the circumstances, he was set to start winning the combat, so our positions were not altruistic... but we each felt in the right.

I eventually relented and of course... providence rewarded me by having MY troops actually do better in the ensuing combat.


I know, I know... friendly game and all... you sort it out just like we did. But what are the actual rules of the game that apply to this??

Thanks,
Gits

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/13 16:48:08


Anvildude: "Honestly, it's kinda refreshing to see an Ork vehicle that doesn't look like a rainbow threw up on it."

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Powerful Phoenix Lord





Buffalo, NY

There are no rules regarding this sort of thing. If in a tournament ask the TO. Otherwise, talk it out. For HIWPI, on the other hand, every model engaged missed horribly on their To Hit rolls, so nothing happened.

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Made in us
Badass "Sister Sin"






Camas, WA

Yeah, forgetting bits does not have a rule. It happens all the time though and can be a touchy subject, especially in competitive play. (Ex: 'Forgetting' reserves when it is inconvenient for them to arrive.)

If in a friendly game, I generally ask to go back unless it would benefit me, in which case I let my opponent decide. In a tournament game, depending on how far we've gone, I generally just let it go, again unless it would benefit me, then I let my opponent decide.

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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot




San Diego Ca

I'd say you BOTH forgot about that assault in progress, so just let it go.
However, if your opponent insists on going back, it may be beneficial to you also.
Consider what would his reaction be if you went back, played out the assault, you won, broke him, and then got to do a free consolidation move AND regular movement at the same time.

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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Madison, WI

That's nearly what happened dkellyj....

We went back.
I won the round.
He was just fearless so I couldn't break him, but it did hurt his unit quite a bit.

Anvildude: "Honestly, it's kinda refreshing to see an Ork vehicle that doesn't look like a rainbow threw up on it."

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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Will you be playing 40k again in the future? If so, move on and ignore it. It's a learning experience that will teach you both more since you'll remember this event, but you'll just forget it if you assume you can rewind time at will.

"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."

This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.


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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Madison, WI

Of course... and that's the thing... in the 20-some years that I've played (in various locations across the country)... we always played it that if you missed a phase/action it was your tough luck. This is the first time I've played with someone who insisted we go back and re-play a missed action. I was kind of taken aback by it, so was hoping for some clarification in case I'd been doing it wrong all these years.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/01/13 17:43:39


Anvildude: "Honestly, it's kinda refreshing to see an Ork vehicle that doesn't look like a rainbow threw up on it."

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Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





North Jersey

You miss something in a phase, you miss it. There is no rule for handling the situation, and the every player would most likely have done something different pending the outcome of the result, so just ignore it and move on.

You could alternatively reset the board to where it was during the assault and replay the turn, but that would be impractical/silly.

-cgmckenzie


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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






You miss it, it is missed. The issue is when you conditionally try to go back and fight it as obviously it will always be a benefit to one person and a detriment to the other hence one person would want to do it, the other would not want to do it.

If both players don't agree, then the default should be 'skip it'. What happens if I 'forgot' to shoot a unit? Should I be able to go back 2 turns and re-shoot? Forgotten or skipped, once the game has moved forward, you can't go back and re-do something (unless both people agree).

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Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

Gitsplitta wrote:But what are the actual rules of the game that apply to this??


As has been said, there are no rules covering missed mandatory actions.

How we play it in the group I play with is:

We redo all mandatory actions, and even let our opponents redo shooting on a unit the missed if it is only the next player turn.

My scouts are painted in a forest camo pattern, and every time they are in dark terrain they blend in so well, my opponents and I forget they are there because they are tough to see. We are usually laid back when it comes to stuff like this.

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Novice Knight Errant Pilot





Baltimore

If you forget to shoot, or forget to charge, that's on you, and unless you catch it immediately, I'm disinclined to go back and do it. An on-going assault however, if forgotten, you always go back and do. It's not like movement, shooting, or charging - it's an inevitable occurrence that both players are involved in resolving. If the models are bound by some sort of mandatory action, then forgetting it isn't an option. For example, if a unit will _always_ move at full speed possible towards the closest enemy, but it's sitting off to the side and gets forgotten, then it will have to be correctly moved when it's remembered. Or a unit's that falling back - if it gets forgotten, when remembered, it should not get to stay where it is with no consequence.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/13 20:01:59


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Madison, WI

Well put Portugal... and perhaps that's the key difference as you suggest... mandatory actions vs. voluntary.

Anvildude: "Honestly, it's kinda refreshing to see an Ork vehicle that doesn't look like a rainbow threw up on it."

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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Chicago

An interesting problem.

Technically, your opponent's assault phase never ended, as that assault wasn't fought. So, the moment you started moving units in what you thought was your movement phase (but was still your opponent's assault phase), you were breaking the rules.

So, either back up and resolve that assault, or forfeit the game.

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If it would change several phases of the game.........Movement has since gone by, some of the hooting has since gone by, I would say pretend the melee was a wash, and we will get to it next assault phase.

If it was some meaningless one sided fight like a Greater Deamon beating up a grot, and its early in the movement phase I wouldnt care if my opponent missed it and said "oooops, we got this melee here, lets resolve it quick." I would easily let my opponent do something like this.

For me it depends how gamechanging it is. The more likely it is to be game changing, I think both opponents should put their heads together and figure out a good comprimise. If a comprimise not be reached....go for the D6.

On a side note, I also think of D6'ing with an opponent like a jump ball. If I win the first one, the opponent should get the next one. Its not very common you have to D6 things during a game, but if two situations do come up outside the rules, then I think both players should get a break. There are quite a few instances that do create a D6 argument, but they dont seem to happen too often. Things like Assault distance (when 6" is really tight, or whether you are forced to go into terrain), rules disputes, LOS issues, forgetting (reserves, an assault, a power casting), or any odd circumstance that arrises.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Madison, WI

Thanks for weighing in guys. We sorted it out amicably enough, but it's clear now that there really is no "defined" answer, at least nothing clearly stated as such in the BRB. Lot's of good options for us though, so I appreciate all the feedback.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/01/15 17:03:47


Anvildude: "Honestly, it's kinda refreshing to see an Ork vehicle that doesn't look like a rainbow threw up on it."

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One Canoptek Scarab in a Swarm




Sussex

You have to go rewind and fight the combat the last bullet point of the assault phase summary is quite clear

pick another combat and repeat until all combats have been resolved.

Only after this can you move on to the next phase/turn
   
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Boosting Ultramarine Biker





Atlanta, GA.

Once the first movement phase is initiated it's assumed that all assaulting is completed from the previous round. To facilitate this I usually ask my opponent, ok, are you done? Yes? Ok my turn to move? I then begin my movement phase. Once I'm don'e with assaulting, I say, I'm done with my assaulting, is it your turn to move? But once that first model is moved, that assaulting phase is done.

This is like the Monopoly rule, you land on my Boardwalk hotels, and I forget to take my rent, and roll, well I missed out.

Again RAW don't help much here. I've forgotten a few times long ago, but not recent, and if memory serves we just said those guys got caught in bad patch of gravity, or strong gale wind, or all stepped in sqigg poop- who knows, but no one could land a single hit.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/16 18:04:03


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Madison, WI

Since we both forgot it completely... it's not like anyone was trying to get away with anything, but it statistically should have been to my advantage to see the combat skipped. As the dice would have it I actually won that round of combat... but I ask this question not to "right a wrong", just to find out if there was an official answer.

Clearly there isn't a consensus on that. However there have been a lot of good suggestions on how to solve the problem amicably, which suits me fine.

Anvildude: "Honestly, it's kinda refreshing to see an Ork vehicle that doesn't look like a rainbow threw up on it."

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Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard






Peoria IL

Roll off to see whether you should go back or not... even what the BRB says to do.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/17 05:37:23


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