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I'm just really curious (and board).

I think it because it appeals to war/history buffs, and it is picking up some of the people leaving 40k.

People are sick of GW. That is why i quit playing 40k.The only gw game i play now is Blood Bowl.Of course it is the ugly GW step child.Also out of all the GW gaming communities were treated the wost.like all specialist games.Also it does not take 1000 dollars plus to build a decent Army for Flames of War.Also the BB community is going to get it wose when the HObbit is released.

col. krazy kenny wrote:People are sick of GW. That is why i quit playing 40k.The only gw game i play now is Blood Bowl.Of course it is the ugly GW step child.Also out of all the GW gaming communities were treated the wost.like all specialist games.Also it does not take 1000 dollars plus to build a decent Army for Flames of War.Also the BB community is going to get it worse when the Hobbit is released.

I agree. GW has - or had, at any rate - the largest and most concentrated base of players in wargaming for a while. But, in the past 10 years, they've lost over 1/3 of their player base, and will continue to do so. Oddly enough, it's in that past 10 or so years that we've seen an veritable flood of quality wargaming companies come into the spotlight - Battlefront, Privateer Press, Wyrd, Corvus Belli, Warlord Games, Spartan Games, Mantic, and many, many more. The reason is simple - as wargamers abandon GW, they take up other games. Not only that, but they also bypass the most normal way that gamers come into the fold - through GW.

Battlefront has an advantage over other historical games because of the way it's presented. The guys who started/run the company are ex-GW employees, and it's own of the few reason's I'm thankful that GW exists. They present the game in a way that's easy to grasp and start playing, without any sort of smothering 'Battlefront Hobby'. It also seems that the average progression of the wargamer starts with fantasy/sci-fi games, and eventually progresses into historicals. Battlefront is an excellent transition company.

GW kinda sunk themselves too by slowly pricing themselves out of the market and disgruntling their player base... This is a hobby that naturally draws in creative people, and then breeds further creativity. Its no surprise that a lot of the people starting up these new competing businesses have at one time or another played GW games.

I remember when I started Warhammer 10 years ago, there was no other games even close to its level, but it was that way because GW was actually good, the game was fun, they did all sorts of things for its player base, but the company is failing and in its dying throes new life comes in form of new games, people leave and flames of war is something uniquely different, where learning about the "fluff" is useful and not a waste of time (and the fact I don't think most GW writers can write very well, there are a few exceptions, and those are the books I own)

FoW is an awesome game. But to be fair, if you look at the Dakka forum, there are like hundreds of thousands of comments for GW games, and it keeping growing (comments wise) and in the Flames of War/Historic, their arn't very many and new ones don't come in a lot... So this whole stature of "GW is dying" is hardly a fact. Yes BF and other companies are growing, quite rapidly for the matter, but that doesn't mean GW or any other games are dying. But the the GW staff are just completey @#$@@$#@#$$@!@!@#!!@##@!@##!@@!@@!@!!!~!@@@!!@@###@@#@!@!@#.... heh...

Three thoughts from me.

1. Cost of Platoons. I bought a Forged in Battle 8cm German Mortar Platoon for £5.25. Thats most of a platoon (Bar a command element and observer), I bought an element of RECON pack of Skdf 222 for £14. Bought a Tiger 1E for £7.50.

So thats the same as an Assault Termie boxed set @ £28.....

2. Speed of painting, In a weekend I can build, paint, varnish and base a whole platoon. Friday - build them, colour prime them, Saturday - paint them, varnish saturday evening,
Sunday morning - flock the base, Dullcote the model on Sunday evening.

I cannot do a whole Tactical Squad in that time.

3. The Armies are to me, much more satisfying to handle. A SM Rhino is just a single transport, I need to shell out £60 plus for 3, which I need with 3 Tactical Squads but this is about the same number of troops as one Platoon in FOW. Having lots of vehicles feels like you command a Company, or Battalion element. It has a satisfying feeling of Command, whereas 40k which still feels like a skirmish game! The most common command rank is sergeant for gods sake!

Success breeds success. As FoW becomes more popular it gains further followers as a result. That GW being a PITA, Plastic Soldier and V3.

Surely FoW justifies its own forum section now.

+1 I agree with George, we do deserve our own section, a suggestion on the nuts and bolts would be a good start. I would also encourage everyone to start putting up Army Profiles on the Army Profiles.

ParatrooperSimon wrote:But to be fair, if you look at the Dakka forum, there are like hundreds of thousands of comments for GW games, and it keeping growing (comments wise) and in the Flames of War/Historic, their arn't very many and new ones don't come in a lot...

Funny thing about that. Battlefront actually has their own well supported and maintained forum, unlike GW. So while GW forces it's players to flock to unofficial sites like Dakka, FoW players have an actual meeting place to talk about the game.

I too have decided not to spend any more money on GW products. The availability of cheap suppliers for 15mm WW2 makes FoW a great option. You still need BF blisters for key units but the core troops and tanks are inexpensive using PSC etc.

If you want FoW to have its own section you could do worse than pester here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/361953.page

Reasons for the game's popularity?

1.) It's World War 2. Everyone knows at least a little bit about it, and you don't have to worry about getting acquainted with the fluff or dealing with fluff retcons.
2.) Because of #1, you don't need to be deep in the fluff to be impressed by someone's army. If someone tells you that he has an army full of Sherman tanks or Tiger tanks, then you know what he's talking about. If you've never played 40K and someone tells you that he has an army of Leman Russes, you're probably just going to look at him funny.
3.) While FoW isn't a direct port of GW's rules, the rules are similar enough that someone who has played a GW game can transfer over with minimal issues.
4.) Unlike many other historical games, FoW focuses more on the "playability" side of things. There are much more technical games that are much better simulations of World War 2. But the technical aspects of those games are why they don't attract the same size of playerbase that Flames of War does.

infinite_array wrote:

ParatrooperSimon wrote:But to be fair, if you look at the Dakka forum, there are like hundreds of thousands of comments for GW games, and it keeping growing (comments wise) and in the Flames of War/Historic, their arn't very many and new ones don't come in a lot...

Funny thing about that. Battlefront actually has their own well supported and maintained forum, unlike GW. So while GW forces it's players to flock to unofficial sites like Dakka, FoW players have an actual meeting place to talk about the game.

Yes I know they do, I'm a member and post all the time their, I was just simply making a point ;D

I just needed a mass battle game that was played by my group.

Also, I used to play the Company of Heroes RTS game a lot so I was introduced to WWII gaming.

So, when an acquaintance was selling off some British Paras for way cheap, I picked some up and started.

infinite_array wrote:

ParatrooperSimon wrote:But to be fair, if you look at the Dakka forum, there are like hundreds of thousands of comments for GW games, and it keeping growing (comments wise) and in the Flames of War/Historic, their arn't very many and new ones don't come in a lot...

Funny thing about that. Battlefront actually has their own well supported and maintained forum, unlike GW. So while GW forces it's players to flock to unofficial sites like Dakka, FoW players have an actual meeting place to talk about the game.

And we all know how helpful and wonderful the GW fourms where, nice mods who wanted a good fourm to call home.... 'twas a nasty nasty place.

My first adventures into historicals has been FoF and I am rather happy right now. I have enough to do between Ambush Valley and Cold War Gone Hot that I wouldn't even think of trying out a new game system. I think for me personally WWII just doesn't interest me as much as Nam and CW era does.

I started to play FoW because after 20 years of GW... I finally cracked under the strain of a poorly written BRB. Rules not making any logical sense.... I do plan to continue with 40k just in a lesser role until 6th comes out and I can see what they fix or break.... Either way my little group will continue on with FoW regardless.

I guess i could start a noob blog.Considering my Blood bowl blog is on Huatus till we start a new season. my BB has 3552 views not bad.

infinite_array wrote:I agree. GW has - or had, at any rate - the largest and most concentrated base of players in wargaming for a while. But, in the past 10 years, they've lost over 1/3 of their player base, and will continue to do so. Oddly enough, it's in that past 10 or so years that we've seen an veritable flood of quality wargaming companies come into the spotlight - Battlefront, Privateer Press, Wyrd, Corvus Belli, Warlord Games, Spartan Games, Mantic, and many, many more. The reason is simple - as wargamers abandon GW, they take up other games. Not only that, but they also bypass the most normal way that gamers come into the fold - through GW.

Battlefront has an advantage over other historical games because of the way it's presented. The guys who started/run the company are ex-GW employees, and it's own of the few reason's I'm thankful that GW exists. They present the game in a way that's easy to grasp and start playing, without any sort of smothering 'Battlefront Hobby'. It also seems that the average progression of the wargamer starts with fantasy/sci-fi games, and eventually progresses into historicals. Battlefront is an excellent transition company.

It is nice to see that there are so many more options to GW in the fantasy/sci-fi mini gaming market now. GW has shot itself in the foot so many times now that people are finally really looking at the alternatives out there. At my local FLGS WFB is almost never played and 40k is one of the least played of the big name games now. Warcraft and Flames of War are the biggies. Malifaux is starting to grow. People still play a bit of Dystopian Wars and Uncharted seas here and there as well. GW has done a good job of pricing itself out of the market. Flames of War is also a decently written set of rules. When playing people occasionally forget how a rule works, but it is very rare indeed for there to be an arguement over the rules or interpretation of the rules. GW still hasn't learned how to write clear and concise rules that don't leave any doubt as to how they work. After all these years it is *still* a problem for them.

A lot of people say that the progression is fantasy/sci-fi to historicals, but I went the other way and never really stopped playing historicals. Flames of War is nice because it is easy enough and mainstream enough to draw in many players. I eventually sold off all of my darkest africa figs because it just kept getting harder and harder to find opponents to play against locally, even when I provided the rules and all of the minis. I cut my teeth on games like Panzer Leader/Blitz and Squad Leader eventually trading in those boring counters for pretty miniatures.

Skriker

Completely agree with the things being said in this thread. I got into WHFB and 40K via Tolkien and fantasy literature about 10 years ago in my early teens. It was a brilliant game with a really dark and exciting back story. Stopped playing before i went to Uni and got back into it last year. Could'nt believe how much it had changed. Really childish and unbalanced with so many overpowered units and an emphasis on making money at the expense of the game. I met Paul Sawyer 'fat bloke' quite a few years back and he spoke about how uneasy a lot of people were with the direction GW was moving in. FoW seemed so much more interesting with large battles and the ability to build up 2k> point forces that don't cost over £100...

To me I honestly just find it far more interesting than where GW took warhammer 40k. I've been a fan of 40k for about a decade now and I've followed it closely, it's basically been my one and only true hobby. In no time at all I began to realize just how much it sucked to play a Xeno army (I use to play Tau). In no time at all I saw my army put on the back burner for years, and all other armies out shoot them which is just by far disgusting.

So I've recently gotten into FoW, it's very balanced it's very realistic, and nothing really is over-powered, and if it is, there is always something to counter it. The game mechanics get me excited (I had a hell of a time taking just two panthers up against 5 shermans and understanding why Germans hated the sherman)).

Anyway, my money will be going to FoW, the developers seem to actually care about their fans, and I will definintly be going further into this...plus...new edition of the rules next month!