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Tinkering with my IG mech guard list which now includes 1infantry platoon and a question came up on "do I give the sarge a plasma pistol or power weapon?"

I just can't for the life of me decide.

For the infantry platoon, I know to give the comissiar, platoon leader, sarge power weapons, but how about a platoon standard or plasma or bolt pistols?

do you guys ever find that useful?

power weapon, always a chance he might take down a MEQ.
Plasma pistol will just blow up in his face.

I'm assuming that you're talking a mechanized infantry platoon...so a PCS and 2 separate IS in Chimeras. Really everyone involved in this shindig who can take one should have a melta gun.

In this situation, they shouldn't have either. Plasma Pistols belong on Al Rahem because he comes with one, and power weapons belong on Sgts and Commissars in power blobs. That's it.

2 plasma pistols=same cost as a demo doctrine upgrade.

Sorry, wasn't too clear was I? Apologies, I was asking about vet squad.

Most of the army is melta/plasma vets (2 of each) in chimeras, wondering if it was worth taking the power weapons and pistols on the sarge.

How about bolt pistols then if not plasma? not worth the points?

sudojoe wrote:Sorry, wasn't too clear was I? Apologies, I was asking about vet squad.

Most of the army is melta/plasma vets (2 of each) in chimeras, wondering if it was worth taking the power weapons and pistols on the sarge.

How about bolt pistols then if not plasma? not worth the points?

Nope.

If you're going to take anything, I had good luck with Autocannons. Some armies (DE especially) present a ton of targets that you need to shut down before they close the distance. Turn 1 they're really not such hot stuff, so it makes sense to sit still and give them the business: 3 Multilaser shots and 2 Autocannon shots at 36". Since the Vets and Chimeras are different units, it essentially doubles the number of targets they can engage in a given turn.

It'll make such a small difference in terms of play however you seem to be like me and drilling every point for its effectiveness. I like that lol. It's a sure path to madness I assure but anyway...

Plasma pistols are very touch and go. Now I give my power blob sergeants and commissars them to give me the option to get a few more wounds on the charge. I'll generally refrain from using them but I've come across large CC units like berserkers and strong ones like terminators before which I need every kill I can get. Thats when they shine for me. The question is whether A) you feel the added flexibility will help the unit enough to warrent its points and B) Can you restrain yourself from using them if the outcome could be bad? That goes for an accidental missfire or killing too many enemies as to put you out of charging distance.

I rarely take bolt pistols. It does what you'd expect for the points. Not much.

The standards rarely come in use I found. Even with dedicated CC units, guard will rarely come out on top. They look nice though and give a sense of pride ^.^

I've thought about doing it on plasma vets, mainly because I have so many arms lying around.

If I had the spare points i'd be tempted but I would worry. One gets bad gets hot and your leadership drops by 1.

I'm just not sure if one extra shot at 12" is worth it.

Been having a lots of these conversation recently, with myself mainly, was thinking about trying power fists but cost to risk ratio doesn't seem to add up. Also bolt pistols, would take boltguns on vet sergeants if you could but not sure about bolt pistols, my main problem is i'd have to take 5 for the maths to work or i'd be left with unused points somewhere

I wouldn't take PW on a vet squad though 10 humans don't last long in the kind of situations a PW would be useful. PW is definatley a blob thing IMHO

I wouldnt take PW on vets either. The unit is shootier than normal infantry but they still suck at CC. Giving them a 10pt power weapon isn't going to change much. A 10pts melta gun however could be game changing.

As for PCS, if you're giving them a PW I think its only right you pay the extra 5pts for the fist. Its not a CC beast and never will be but the Fist gives you enough punch to do some real damage before getting mauled. The big difference is when you're taking on say a tactical sqaud, a PW will get a few kills over the combat, the fist will put winning the combat in sight. I also find the fist helpful against MC's at a pinch. Lol I've had some bad times in 4th ed against necrons.

See i've heard a couple of people say they have a PCS with a fist and that again would worry me a little, against vehicles it would be nice (although a melta bomb would be cheaper), but a five man sqaud with fist hitting last sounds like it would die before getting to hit back.

i'm tempted to try it just becasue I want to model a few troops with Power fists.

Well you're right in a way. A 30pt upgrade to a 30pt unit sounds like madness but thats why I trust it =p

The unit will never stand upto a dedicated CC unit. On the otherhand you should be shooting them instead. My PCS is there to take on stragglers and units that are designed to shoot. Either low model units like assault sqauds which are down to two guys for example or tactical squads. Three extra wounds, means you will usually get to swing them. And x6 powerfist attacks at 6 str and no save can do some damage. They'll cripple a tactical sqaud which costs more points and finish off any stragglers which would otherwise threatern other elements in my army.


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Just be carful because adding x2 fists with a commissar and it gets pricey. Its more for flexibility than for cost effectiveness. But its a unit I know is there if I need it. Let the big guns earn the points, these are just here to cover them.

Normally my Jr officers don't get upgrades, as the only PCS I take on a regular basis is Al'rahem, might have to have a play though.

I have about 70 points to play with in my current list filled by ratlings so might try PP and PF on my vets.

I feel that the only place I could justify plasma pistols would be on melta or plasma stormtroopers. Most often this type unit is deepstriking or infiltrating somewhere behind or to the side of a tank, and are going to be suiciding to kill it. But the unit can only take 2 special weapons, so an extra str 7 shot will be useful against a lrbt back armor, or a vindicators side armor.

I agree on the stormtrooper point.

Stormtroopers hot shot lasgun is such a deception that all effectiveness of this unit lies in delivery of his two special weapons, where you need them the most, and 2 melta guns @ BS 4 are quite good. But sometimes they fail to inflict enough damage (or damage at all) on a target tank. Even if plasma pistol is not as powerful as a meltagun, it is quite effective at side / rear armour, for quite cheap points on top of that. For merely 10% squad cost, that allows much more efficiency.


On veteran squads wich are commended the risky task of hunting high priority heavy targets, I still find the plasma pistol to be a valuable addition. Maybe not optimal for all uses, but I dare to take this risk. We're Imperial guard !
Against a lot of tough troops, they are quite as good as meltaguns, or equivalent to them. My idea behind this is, when you face tough and dangerous foe in the hottest spots of the battlefield, you would better maximize on appropriate weapons, to smash as strong as possible the turn you have a clear spot. Before any retaliation, next turn your shiny veteran squad could easily be wiped out.This applies well for melta vets or plasma vets jumping out of a Valkyrie / Vendetta. Finally I would tend to advise them on these type of squads.


On other IG troops, with lower BS, or more important characters (officers, commissars) I tend to avoid them.

I'll say this to pitch in my worth. Remember having the gun doesnt mean you have to use it. You could fire all other weapons first see that they're maybe 1 or 2 people left (or 1 wound left on IC's) and think "what the hell, if it'll get it done this turn why not!" Also, i tend to find power swords being "4's to hit...2hit 5's-6's to wound...nothing" Thats why i tend to lean towards the plas pistol. its in both of my vet squads. with the plas pistol you go "3's hit hit! 2's to wound!" most of the time and sometimes its a "oh, a 1...damn 5+armour...oh well just another guardsmen paving the way to victory!"

sudojoe wrote:Sorry, wasn't too clear was I? Apologies, I was asking about vet squad.

Most of the army is melta/plasma vets (2 of each) in chimeras, wondering if it was worth taking the power weapons and pistols on the sarge.

How about bolt pistols then if not plasma? not worth the points?

I have run the SGT with a plasma pistol and have never realy had an issue with it. Of course, he has not saved himself on a get hot, but, that happens. Currently, been running this; plasma gun x3, SGT w/ plasma pistol, and putting a lord Commissar (plasma pistol/power weapon/ carapace) in there with them. If I have the points available, I will give the squad carapace armor, but, not always sure if that is a good investment.