Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Had this happen yesterday, felt like maybe it wasn't correct?

I'll clarify that I'm very new to the game and don't have a good grasp on all of the rules yet.

DC with Lemartes and JP assault squad of Ork Boyz attached to a Warboss.

DC rips apart the boyz, but none are in base contact with the Warboss, 2 boyz and the WB are left over.

WB rolls... 1's literally, all of them 1's. It was brutal.

So after the assault, I'm the clear victor, the orks retreat, and the WB is caught up in a sweeping advance, which I win the roll for.

Is the WB immediately destroyed? It seemed... Too easy.

Also the Ork player is just as new as I am, perhaps we missed something?

yep. That seems right.

This kind of question should go into YMDC...
For future reference.
On Topic-It seems right AFAIK...

Correct, the Warboss is destroyed as are any Boyz that were with him.

This represents the Warboss turning tail and getting run down. The Marines catch him and rip his head off.

its just one of those things that happens when orks are brought down to no longer being fearless and they lose combat by alot.

Ah okay. I'm not used to having effective units. I was very concerned I had wronged him. Well damn. Thanks for the heads up.

This is what boss poles are for

Jasonobi wrote:Ah okay. I'm not used to having effective units. I was very concerned I had wronged him. Well damn. Thanks for the heads up.

After a couple years I've finally started winning a LOT more often than losing. So I completely understand the sentiment. When the turnaround occurred I had to stop and make sure I wasn't cheating somehow.

Jasonobi wrote:DC rips apart the boyz, but none are in base contact with the Warboss, 2 boyz and the WB are left over.

WB rolls... 1's literally, all of them 1's. It was brutal.

The underlined part above is not correct, To clarify:

The Warboss is an IC, and he can not attack unless he is in base contact with the enemy at the beginning of the round of combat.

Also you can not attack an IC unless you are in base contact with him, or not in base contact with anyone, but within 2 inches of someone in base contact with the IC.

If the IC was not in base contact he should not be attacking.

Not like it mattered

I know it did not matter, but he said he was "new to the game and don't have a good grasp on all of the rules yet."

I was trying to clarify a mistake that was made, for learning purposes.

Actually I had no Idea that was the rule. SO an IC, even if part of a unit, cannot attack unless is it in base contact with the enemy itself?

I take it this is to prevent hiding him in the back of say... a mob of boyz so he cannot be personally injured?

ANd yes! very much matters! do explain, this is exactly the stuff we have no idea about how to properly sort it out.

Correct, ICs can only attack, and be attacked, against/by models in base to base(they can be attacked by RnF within 2" of models in base to base)

It means that ICs can avoid other ICs and things that might cause instant death just by not being in base contact with models with, or within 2" of models with, weapons that might cause them grevious harm.

Jasonobi wrote:Actually I had no Idea that was the rule. SO an IC, even if part of a unit, cannot attack unless is it in base contact with the enemy itself?

I take it this is to prevent hiding him in the back of say... a mob of boyz so he cannot be personally injured?

ANd yes! very much matters! do explain, this is exactly the stuff we have no idea about how to properly sort it out.

Correct. When it comes time to strike blows, ICs are treated as a separate unit. Any excess wounds cause to the unit will not go to the IC. In order to hurt the IC, you must direct attacks at the IC with models that were engaged at the start of combat (after all moves/pile-in/etc) have been done.

If the death company charged, the Warboss would be forced to move into base contact, and he would even push boyz out of the way to do so. So unless there is some serious terrain blocking going on, or the warboss is further than 6" away from the closest DC model, he would have been in base to base with something,

I feel your pain mate.

P49 for ICs in combat, FAQ which confirms that defenders react and pile in forces ICs to move first, elbowing other models out of the way as needed

Jaysus news to me too, thanks.

So in this pic, the Warboss could not have attacked the WL since he wasnt in btb with him?
How can he attack him then and avoid getting instagibbed by the WL str 10? No way?

During the earlier rounds there was a ring of Boyz around the WLs with the Warboss hanging back putting in blows himself. Played wrong?

Absolutely no way. P49, ICs are a separate unit when resolving attacks. You can only attack and be attacked if you are in btb with a member of the unit

Agreed with Nos, if you wanna get up close and personal, than ya gotta risk bein squished.

The only exception i could think of, off hand, is Lucius the Eternal in the 3.5 codex. He had a special rule that let him make attacks as if he were a non-IC (in essence)

Thanks.
And just to be sure, if the Nob was in the same position, he could attack because hes within 2 inches of another member of his squad in btb with the WL?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But couldnt be hit himself by the WL?

The nob is a member of the unit, so can strike in CC as long as he is in btb with, or within 2" of a model in btb with, an enemy model.

The Wraithlord is unable to single out members of the unit, so you are able to allocate wounds (and remove casualties) as per the usual rules - so only if you want to would you normally allocate wounds to the nob

Jidmah wrote:If the death company charged, the Warboss would be forced to move into base contact, and he would even push boyz out of the way to do so,

No permission is given to move through a space occupied by friendly bases.

The Warboss can not "push boyz out of the way to do so" he does however have to try and Pile In first, if possible. If that is not possible you must move Boyz out of the way. following the Pile In rules, as to make a path for the Warboss to Pile In as soon as possible.

If you're nitpicking, care to explain how you move boyz out of base contact while still abiding to the pile in rules?

Ratius wrote:Jaysus news to me too, thanks.

So in this pic, the Warboss could not have attacked the WL since he wasnt in btb with him?
How can he attack him then and avoid getting instagibbed by the WL str 10? No way?

Well the WL can't attack him either since they aren't engaged with him.

During the earlier rounds there was a ring of Boyz around the WLs with the Warboss hanging back putting in blows himself. Played wrong?

Yup. You can't do that.

Jidmah wrote:If you're nitpicking, care to explain how you move boyz out of base contact while still abiding to the pile in rules?

Check the FAQ in the main rulebook.

Pile in rules force you to move into base contact if possible. The FAQ forces you to move out of base contact if possible, to make room for the warboss.

Game breaks.

Jidmah wrote:Pile in rules force you to move into base contact if possible. The FAQ forces you to move out of base contact if possible, to make room for the warboss.

Game breaks.

Nah, you just resolve them one after the other. You have to move out of the way of the Warboss, THEN you have to pile in; but of course it's not possible to move into base contact if the Warboss has stolen your spot. Game doesn't break at all.

Jidmah wrote:Pile in rules force you to move into base contact if possible. The FAQ forces you to move out of base contact if possible, to make room for the warboss.

Game breaks.

Game does not break.

I will illustrate:

In the Illustration 1-3 are in B2B with the enemy.

As per the Pile in rules you need to move the unengaged models in to B2B if possible, and the IC "Must move before other friendly models in order to get into Base Contact with an enemy if at all possible" P.49 BRB

So we try to move the IC (#7), not possible yet.

So we move Ork #6 into Enemy #2, then we move the Warboss (#7) into B2B with Enemy 3.

Then we move Ork #4 into B@B with Enemy #1, and Ork 5 into B2B if possible, if not, to within 2 inches of someone who is in B2B.

DR - remember that is not the only rule in play"

"A: If it is possible to move friendly models out of the way to make space for the Independent Character then they must move first. Followed by the Independent Character and finally the rest of the unit can move. If the Independent Character is still unable to make it into base contact he must move as close to the enemy as possible."

Gives you explicit licence to move contrary to the assault rules when Pile In / Defenders React

Right, you have to move #6 out of the way to make space for the Independent Character

In this case #6 must move first.

It does not contradict the Pile In / Defenders React at all.

"they must move first" is referring to "If it is possible to move friendly models out of the way"

So the Friendly models must move first and move out of the way and into B2B as to not break any rules. Then you can move the IC once they have enough space to move.