Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'm collecting this army because I'm hoping it will perform like I wish my Tau would. Fast moving and shooty.

HQ -
Baron

Troops -

Warriors x10 with Syrabrite, Dark Lance, Blaster.
Venom with splinter cannon upgrade, night Shields

Warriors x10 with Syrabrite, Dark Lance, Blaster.
Venom with splinter cannon upgrade, night Shields

Wyches x5 with Hekatrix w/power weapon and blast pistol. Hydra gauntlets
Venom with splinter cannon upgrade, night shields.

Fast attack
Reavers x6 with x2) heatlance, x1) cluster caltrops, Arena Champion with Power weapon.

Heavy support
Razorwing - Splinter Cannon, Flicker Fields, Night Shields

Razorwing - Splinter Cannon, Flicker Fields, Night Shields

Voidraven Bomber, Implosion missile x2, Flicker Fields, Night Shields.


This comes in at 1485 points. I know that the warriors cannot ride in the venoms until they get thinned out, but since their job is to sit in cover on objectives and shoot stuff, I'm not too worried about it. This is my first DE list ever. I've not even played against them once in my 10 years of gaming in this hobby. I just want stuff that can scoot and shoot and actually kill stuff. The fact that it all looks cool is a bonus. Infact that pretty much is the whole point of this list. I want something that just looks cool.

The Baron starts the game with the reavers as some alpha strike defense just in case I don't get 1st turn. I found it funny that the Baron is the only HQ that can get a method of movement better than infantry without having to buy a Raider. BTW, I wont field raiders as I dislike how they look, so don't even suggest it.

Thanks for looking.

Do you want your list to be competitive?

Some thoughts for you...

Jayden63 wrote:
Baron

You are better off joining him to hellions - they shoot more and benefit more from the baron

Jayden63 wrote:
Warriors x10 with Syrabrite, Dark Lance, Blaster.
Venom with splinter cannon upgrade, night Shields

Warriors x10 with Syrabrite, Dark Lance, Blaster.
Venom with splinter cannon upgrade, night Shields

These units are illegal - the codex does not allow you to buy a transport for a unit that can not fit in it. You need to cut them to 5 men which looses the dark lance and at that point you might as well loose the sybarite. By dropping the night shields as well you get to the point of 2 trueborn with 2 dark lances in a venom with dual cannons

Jayden63 wrote:
Wyches x5 with Hekatrix w/power weapon and blast pistol. Hydra gauntlets
Venom with splinter cannon upgrade, night shields.

As a fast attack platform you wil be closing with the enemy - loose the night shields. Also, the hekatrix should have an agoniser while the wych weapon should be a shard net. They will not win fights with the unit - its the agoniser or nothing. The shardnet should help them survive. They also need haywire grenades...

Jayden63 wrote:
Reavers x6 with x2) heatlance, x1) cluster caltrops, Arena Champion with Power weapon.

Decide what you want this unit to do and do it well. The PW on the champ can go for starters as reavers have no business being in combat. Personally i would ditch the caltrops and swap the heat lances for blasters...

Jayden63 wrote:
Razorwing - Splinter Cannon, Flicker Fields, Night Shields
Razorwing - Splinter Cannon, Flicker Fields, Night Shields

I like my razorwing and its one of the few vehicles that MIGHT see use with the night shields

Jayden63 wrote:
Voidraven Bomber, Implosion missile x2, Flicker Fields, Night Shields.

URGH.... loose the missiles - what a massive waste and 99% useless. This thing should ALWAYS be hunting tanks... the missiles give it nothing in that role. Lets not even get into paying 30 points for a small blast one shot weapon...

For a shooty list, take a peak at trueborn - they are awesome for anti tank or anti infantry. That said, venoms do the AI thing very well so blasterborn or lanceborn are the way to go.

Jayden63 wrote:
I'm collecting this army because I'm hoping it will perform like I wish my Tau would. Fast moving and shooty.

First off we are not tau. We are faster, and better in CC than tau. Out BS is higher, but you have stronger weapons. We also don't have any armor, or suits, or armored vehicles, or drones. Speed is it for us.

Jayden63 wrote:
HQ -
Baron

And right here. Baron is a CC guy. With no hellions or beasts he is a waste. Get duke sliscus instead to up your shooting, or get a haemy and some wyches to have a counter charge unit.

Jayden63 wrote:
Troops -

Warriors x10 with Syrabrite, Dark Lance, Blaster.
Venom with splinter cannon upgrade, night Shields

Warriors x10 with Syrabrite, Dark Lance, Blaster.
Venom with splinter cannon upgrade, night Shields

Both of these are illegal. You cannot buy a transport for a unit that is bigger than its carrying capacity as per the DE codex. Drop 5 guys, the DL, and the sybarite. These aren't team leaders and offer no benefit to the DE. MSU is what makes us good.
Drop the NS as well. Anything that can threaten a venom will most likely have a range of 48"+ like a lascannon, autocannon, or railgun. Thus the venom will be in range to fire the SC. Anything with a 24" range such as staionary (or suit) plasma, or assault cannons will be in range if you want to shoot he blaster.

Jayden63 wrote:
Wyches x5 with Hekatrix w/power weapon and blast pistol. Hydra gauntlets
Venom with splinter cannon upgrade, night shields.

Bump them up to 9. Swap the PW for an agoniser since it is miles better. B.Pistols are way to expensive for what you get. Hydras are ok against GEQ but razorflails are the best mathmatically against MEQs.
Then buy them a raider instead and just get the FF. I know you said you don't like them because of looks. Look at the old one for 10+ years then come back. Wyches is small squads die that's it.

Jayden63 wrote:
Fast attack
Reavers x6 with x2) heatlance, x1) cluster caltrops, Arena Champion with Power weapon.

Ugh. First off 15 DE won't last long as troops. Bump them up to about 5 x 5 man warrior squads. This is a great spot for some of those points. As for the ugh comment, sorry but A) never take the arena champ these guys aren't for CC. B) take 5 scourges of 6 reavers you get the same number of special weapons, break at the same points, and can't rally at the same point, but 5 scourges costs less.

Jayden63 wrote:
Heavy support
Razorwing - Splinter Cannon, Flicker Fields, Night Shields

Razorwing - Splinter Cannon, Flicker Fields, Night Shields

Again no with the NS. Ravagers are way better for the points...way way better. Venoms will give you enough infantry killing. AT can be lacking with DE.

Jayden63 wrote:
Voidraven Bomber, Implosion missile x2, Flicker Fields, Night Shields.

Voidravens aren't bad at highter point games, implosion missiles are way to expensive, and no to NS. I'd get a third ravager instead.

Get your troops maxed or at least close to it at this point, then elites and HS. Only then look at FA.

as i said in a nother article:
sliscus+4trueborn with carabines in a venom with nightshield and cannon - counts as deffensive.
3 ravagers with night shield and flicker field
4*10warriors with a splinter cannon in raider with nightshield flickerfield and splinterracks.

kill mech, and overkills infantry, fast and DS cause of slicus.

a way of use: 2*(1 ravager and 2 raiders) focus on separate targets and a ravager and the hq on a third. or you can use any of these combinations. for rapid fire, you cover 24"(12 for move and 12 for rapid) in shooting and you cont as 18" away for enemies, have a 4+ invul and one squad shoots 22 SxAP5 shots at a target with a S8AP2 lance shot at a target of choice in a cone in front of the raider.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Akroma06 wrote:
Drop the NS as well. Anything that can threaten a venom will most likely have a range of 48"+ like a lascannon, autocannon, or railgun. Thus the venom will be in range to fire the SC. Anything with a 24" range such as staionary (or suit) plasma, or assault cannons will be in range if you want to shoot he blaster.

Fusion Blaster and guns melt from half distance, reduceing it to 6" causes melta on 3". Im more concearned about eldar dragons and tau suits or piranhas, than railguns or lascannons. And the imperiums multi-melta hits from 24", decreased to 18", 12" melta reduced to 9". I think it can be used to avoid catastrophy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Akroma06 wrote:
First off we are not tau. We are faster, and better in CC than tau. Out BS is higher, but you have stronger weapons. We also don't have any armor, or suits, or armored vehicles, or drones. Speed is it for us.

I think my build is quite a bit better shooty than cc

Thanks for the info guys, I totally missed the bit on the large squads vs transport. Gonna have to rethink some things. When I get a free moment, I'll revise and repost.

But probably just by dropping the 5 warriors (including darklances) from both the warrior squads and implosion missiles will be enough to add a large unit of Hellions for the Barron to fly around with.

Or the points could be spent on a blaster trueborn squad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So if I drop both the warrior squads down to 5 and drop the dark lances (as I'm supposed to) add to that dropping both the implosion missiles that frees up 200 points.

That can get me the following.

Trueborn squad of 5 with 4 blasters in a venom (same as above) or 11 Hellions with Helliarch or another 5 man warrior squad with blaster with venom and enough points to upgrade the barron to the duke (but at this point he has no where to sit).

I'm also not sure why an agonizer is such a great deal. its 10 more points than a power weapon its only benefit over a straight up power weapon is that you never will need more than a 4 to wound. However, the only units I'd consider having it on all have combat drugs and powered by pain. So your already in great position to get yourself S4 or S5 on the charge or rerolls to wound which effectively is the same thing. There isn't a whole lot of T5 and greater stuff out there that your going to be engaging in HTH that your probably not going to be shooting death with poisoned 4+ weapons that we already have in spades.

Also its my personal mantra to always take the unit upgrade if it offers a LD boost. The only time I don't is if the upgrade has some special rules that actually hurt the unit (kroot shaper). Its just my luck with die rolls, that 8 to a 9 is huge.

I too also feel that the Night Shields are important. It removes all those pesky 12" range guns (turns them into 6") that seem to drop AV10 vehicles (as playing orks for years has taught me). The 48" range autocannon and missile launcher is going to still get you minus the 6" range or not. But plasma, melta, bolter, pulse, etc might just find themselves out of range, especially if they moved that turn. The only vehicle units from the above list that I don't see hovering around the 30-36" range is the wytch and trueborne squad.

Look I'm not a fan of hellions...at all. I think they are overcosted and are average at best. You don't see marine players running assault squads (BA not withstanding) so why should we with our weaker armor and toughness? Run beasts instead. 5 Khymeare and 4 razorwings with 3 beastmasters. That is dirt cheap...like 200 points. Baron gives them stealth so as long as they hug cover then split them before the assault they work well together. The beasts give you the ability to keep wounds off of the baron and he gives them stealth. Once you get to your opponent have them go their own seperate ways.

I'm good with not taking any Hellians or the Barron. I like their models but am not sold on them. Its just that I needed a HQ and at the moment all the transports are at full capacity and I didn't want just a foot slogging guy.

The Barron is the only HQ in the entire codex with a better movement than straight infantry. Can't even give bikes or skyboards to the generic HQ guys.

I could see dropping the Voidraven bomber for a Ravager, save some points and the ravager doesn't look exactly like a normal raider because of the extra guns so that helps, but I'm not sure the change is necessary. You gain one DL on the ravager over the bomber, but the ravager is open topped and the bomber still has the one shot bomb.

The 40 points in savings is somewhat huge though.

The void raven has the same chance to inflict a wreck or better result on AV12+ as the ravager thanks to the higher strength of the void lances (around 22% per turn of shooting)

The ravager makes up this loss by having an extra shot.

Thing is, as the AV drops, the ravager gets better thanks to the extra shot.

If you want a cheap HQ - drop a succubus in the trueborn... of even just a basic haemonculus. Turborn can be a unit of 4 so getting the HQ in with them in a venom is easy!

So the somewhat revised list now looks like this.

HQ
Duke Sliscus

Troops
Kabalite Warriors, x5 Blaster x1 Sybarite (leader upgd)
Venom Splinter Cannon Night Shields

Kabalite Warriors, x5 Blaster x1 Sybarite (leader upgd)
Venom Splinter Cannon Night Shields

Kabalite Warriors, x5 Blaster x1 Sybarite (leader upgd)
Venom Splinter Cannon Night Shields

Wyches, x5 Razorflails x1, Haywire Grenades, Hekatrix (leader upgd), Phantasm Grenade, Power Weapon
Venom Splinter Cannon Night Shields

Elites
Kabalite Trueborn, x4 Splinter Cannon x2 Blaster x2
Venom Splinter cannon Nightshields

Fast Attack
Reavers, x6 Heat Lance x2 Cluster Caltrops x1 Arena Champion Power Weapon

Heavy Support
Razorwing, Splinter Cannon Night Shields Flickerfield

Razorwing, Splinter Cannon Night Shields Flickerfield


Even with all that I have 16 points left over. The duke will jump in the with trueborn making all those splinter weapons (poison 3). I could drop the blasters out and one of the truborn (to keep the whole thing at 30-36 range) and have enough points to drop in a Haemonclus in there, but I'm not too sure about what that would really do for it.

For now anyway I'm planning on keeping the powerweapon on the biker upgrade because I can see a time when I will be getting these guys stuck in. I've always played my bikers aggressively and using them to finish off a already depleted squad from massive shooting is a great way to get pain tokens.

The biggest issue I can see is a total lack of AT. I've got four darklances, two heat lances and five blasters. Thats pretty much it. Anti infantry will not be a problem.

Jayden63 wrote:
HQ
Duke Sliscus

If you really like him, sure. But not too many units benefit from the combat drugs and 3+ isn't really that big of a change.

Troops
Kabalite Warriors, x5 Blaster x1 Sybarite (leader upgd)
Venom Splinter Cannon Night Shields

Yip, cool. At MSU you don't need the squad leader, save points. NS depends on your strategy, don't believe all the internet hype.

Wyches, x5 Razorflails x1, Haywire Grenades, Hekatrix (leader upgd), Phantasm Grenade, Power Weapon
Venom Splinter Cannon Night Shields

Too small to do anything major. Agoniser is the weapon of choice, think MC. DOn't need the launcher.

Elites
Kabalite Trueborn, x4 Splinter Cannon x2 Blaster x2
Venom Splinter cannon Nightshields

I think you need this as 3-4 with blasters. Need AT

Fast Attack
Reavers, x6 Heat Lance x2 Cluster Caltrops x1 Arena Champion Power Weapon

I like these, if you want the champ the agoniser is worth the points. These should be shooting each turn until they die so the caltrops are a bit opf a waste.

Heavy Support
Razorwing, Splinter Cannon Night Shields Flickerfield

Razorwing, Splinter Cannon Night Shields Flickerfield

Maybe you need the extra AI, but Ravagers with ff really are quite nice. Talos with T/L HL are nice and cheap and look cool if you don't like the ravager model either.

Is that difficult to read?

@Akroma06:
Havent thought of uesing Baron like that. But i cant seam to get over him haveing only a hellglave and not the stunclaw. that would be better i think, would be more interesting and a litle more tempting to use him
@Jayden: i think the ravager has a front and side av of 11. That is also better imo - open topped yeah, dub shakes off the s4 rapid shots, unlike the raider - though i still field-em for my army.
@Massaen: a melee HQ in a basically shooty squad that can do average in melee. Nice.
no arguments on the ravager, that HS is just fantastic!!

@enfernux - the idea of a succubus in with the trueborn is to give you a speed bump assault unit. The haemy is cheaper and better but for variety, the succubus is good!

why would you want to assault, if there is nothing left to assault? imo and build, i trade all my shots for 1-2 targets+ their transport, mow'em down with a massive number of shots, and i trade at average a 187.5 pt squad for a 250+ Trade? Yep!

Jayden63 wrote:I'm also not sure why an agonizer is such a great deal. its 10 more points than a power weapon its only benefit over a straight up power weapon is that you never will need more than a 4 to wound. However, the only units I'd consider having it on all have combat drugs and powered by pain. So your already in great position to get yourself S4 or S5 on the charge or rerolls to wound which effectively is the same thing. There isn't a whole lot of T5 and greater stuff out there that your going to be engaging in HTH that your probably not going to be shooting death with poisoned 4+ weapons that we already have in spades

The point is, most of the army is Str3, that needs 5s to wound MEQs, but ultimately Agonisers are meant for giving a Str3 model the ability to reasonably wound anything.
It gives each squad the ability to hurt ICs and MCs effectively, while forcing invuns on anything else.
That said I don't feel they're as useful now as they were last edition.

Akroma06 wrote:Look I'm not a fan of hellions...at all. I think they are overcosted and are average at best. You don't see marine players running assault squads (BA not withstanding) so why should we with our weaker armor and toughness? Run beasts instead. 5 Khymeare and 4 razorwings with 3 beastmasters. That is dirt cheap...like 200 points. Baron gives them stealth so as long as they hug cover then split them before the assault they work well together. The beasts give you the ability to keep wounds off of the baron and he gives them stealth. Once you get to your opponent have them go their own seperate ways.

They also cost around £1 a point too

Some great information here, thanks a ton guys. While I like my lists to be competitive, I don't really go for the cookie cutter massive spam type lists (although at the moment its looking like I need 5 venoms). I don't need to play an army with an autowin button, but it does need to be able to put up a hard fight.

While I am not an MSU fan, my lists tend to lead that way because I play 40K for the vehicles. So I like to include as many as I can. I rather wish I liked the look of the raider better than I currently do, just to add some verity to the table top, but I really just can't bring myself to buy the model (However I agree that they look 1000 times better than the old ones).

Jayden63 wrote:
So the somewhat revised list now looks like this.
HQ
Duke Sliscus

Uh ok...you really don't have enough drugs to make good use of him and now pure dakka squad to do so either. Haemy with wyches or baron with beasts. Personally the baron gives you an edge to start the game. He can also go after armor with his S5-6 which can wreck some face. The stunclaw is a lot more gimmicky than you realize. It drags an IC off with you...and enemy ICs are typical the nasties with PW and the like prime for squishing you.

Jayden63 wrote:
Troops
Kabalite Warriors, x5 Blaster x1 Sybarite (leader upgd)
Venom Splinter Cannon Night Shields

Again no NS especially on anything with blasters as they only stop rapid fire shooting that moved. Otherwise its worthless. The sybarite is a paid upgrade in Ld nothing more. Save the points.

Jayden63 wrote:
Kabalite Warriors, x5 Blaster x1 Sybarite (leader upgd)
Venom Splinter Cannon Night Shields

Kabalite Warriors, x5 Blaster x1 Sybarite (leader upgd)
Venom Splinter Cannon Night Shields

Same

Jayden63 wrote:
Wyches, x5 Razorflails x1, Haywire Grenades, Hekatrix (leader upgd), Phantasm Grenade, Power Weapon
Venom Splinter Cannon Night Shields

No NS. The PGL is very limited since you already have plasmas. 5 is just too small to be effective unfortunately.
Go with an agoniser...trust me they are miles better. Just do some quick mathhammer.
4 attacks on the charge 2 hits. Against MEQs you deal .6667 PW wounds with a PW.
With an agoniser you deal one wound per phase with an agoniser.
That goes from one confirmed kill to a less than one per turn. The edge is against bigger things, like Plague Marines, DP, Trygons, Avatars, Wraithguard, etc. Note that I didn't calculate any drugs in there (assumed a 1 or 6)

Jayden63 wrote:
Elites
Kabalite Trueborn, x4 Splinter Cannon x2 Blaster x2
Venom Splinter cannon Nightshields

Ehhh...not really a fan. I see what you were trying to do, but a squad either dedicated to AT or infantry will work better. So either drop the blasters for carbines or more preferably go with 4 blasters.

Jayden63 wrote:
Fast Attack
Reavers, x6 Heat Lance x2 Cluster Caltrops x1 Arena Champion Power Weapon

Mathmatically scourges are better points wise. The AC is no different than a marine squad gearing up for CC which they don't do. You don't have to have leaders in your squads...infact short of hekartixes they are normally a bad idea. Personally I'd kick them to the curb for more troops.

Jayden63 wrote:
Heavy Support
Razorwing, Splinter Cannon Night Shields Flickerfield

Razorwing, Splinter Cannon Night Shields Flickerfield

Ravagers are just so much better...they really are. Voidravens aren't that bad. Most people just see armor 11 with less shots than a ravager, but omit that it isn't open topped which is a breath of fresh air to me. Go with one of these two and leave the NS off.

Jayden63 wrote:
Even with all that I have 16 points left over. The duke will jump in the with trueborn making all those splinter weapons (poison 3). I could drop the blasters out and one of the truborn (to keep the whole thing at 30-36 range) and have enough points to drop in a Haemonclus in there, but I'm not too sure about what that would really do for it.

Haemy with the trueborn would be bad...he goes with wyches. Duke Sliscus only affects the infantry weapons not the venom's so it is only two weapons that get buffed.

Jayden63 wrote:
For now anyway I'm planning on keeping the powerweapon on the biker upgrade because I can see a time when I will be getting these guys stuck in. I've always played my bikers aggressively and using them to finish off a already depleted squad from massive shooting is a great way to get pain tokens.
The biggest issue I can see is a total lack of AT. I've got four darklances, two heat lances and five blasters. Thats pretty much it. Anti infantry will not be a problem.

Don't run the reavers. You have them mixed. Either you use the bladevanes or you shoot (don't forget the hop in the assault phase) never both. Scourges and reavers cost the same, but 5 scourges get 2 special weapons where it take 6 reavers to do that. More toops is still a solution.
You are insanely light on AT. 11 darklight weapons and the minimum here is 15 (1 for every 100 points). And that is the minimum. A raider for the wyches and 2 ravagers gets you up to 14 and buing a squad or two of warriors over the reavers gets you another 1 as does trading the SC for blasters...getting you to 17.

Jayden63 wrote:
I'm also not sure why an agonizer is such a great deal. its 10 more points than a power weapon its only benefit over a straight up power weapon is that you never will need more than a 4 to wound. However, the only units I'd consider having it on all have combat drugs and powered by pain. So your already in great position to get yourself S4 or S5 on the charge or rerolls to wound which effectively is the same thing. There isn't a whole lot of T5 and greater stuff out there that your going to be engaging in HTH that your probably not going to be shooting death with poisoned 4+ weapons that we already have in spades

You require a haemy to get the first pain token and then +1 Strength, AND then kill another squad. 5 wyches have a snowballs chance of doing all that. I just showed above how already at S3 agonisers are better. You also cap at S 5. What about when wraithguard or the avatar, or a trygon, or a carnifex, or a MoN DP comes a knocking? I still wound on 4s you need 5s or 6s. Those 10 points are better spent there then on NS.

Ovion wrote:
The point is, most of the army is Str3, that needs 5s to wound MEQs, but ultimately Agonisers are meant for giving a Str3 model the ability to reasonably wound anything.
It gives each squad the ability to hurt ICs and MCs effectively, while forcing invuns on anything else.
That said I don't feel they're as useful now as they were last edition.

I fully agree with Ovion, in the last book they were dumb with vehicles.
Jayden if you look at anyone's list or ask almost anyone here or in your LGS they will tell you agonisers are better.

Ovion wrote:

Akroma06 wrote:
Look I'm not a fan of hellions...at all. I think they are overcosted and are average at best. You don't see marine players running assault squads (BA not withstanding) so why should we with our weaker armor and toughness? Run beasts instead. 5 Khymeare and 4 razorwings with 3 beastmasters. That is dirt cheap...like 200 points. Baron gives them stealth so as long as they hug cover then split them before the assault they work well together. The beasts give you the ability to keep wounds off of the baron and he gives them stealth. Once you get to your opponent have them go their own seperate ways.

They also cost around £1 a point too

Hey I never said they were cheap. I made my beastmasters out of hellions, my khymerae are the old beastmasters (Jayden you may be able to pick these up on ebay). So the only thing I had to take the plunge on was 4 razorwing flocks, which isn't that bad. I know someone on here made some decent conversions for them out of the little blades from a vehicle kit, but I can't find where it is.

If I swallow my dislike for Raiders and drop the nightshields and the duke as has been suggested I can do this.

HQ
Succubus with Agonizer

Elites -
Trueborn x4 with x4 blasters
Venom with splinter cannon

Troops-

x3) Warriors x5, Sarabrite, blaster x1, Venom with Splinter cannon.

x1) Wyches x9, Razorflails x1, Haywire Grenades, Hekatrix (leader upgd), Agonizer, Raider with Flickerfields

Fast Attack
Reavers x6, Heat Lance x2, Arena Champion, Power Weapon

Heavy Support

Razorwing, flicker fields

Razorwing, Flicker fields

Ravager, Flicker fields

This increased my At by 4 Dark lances and 2 blasters. I also now have a fuller wych squad with the succubus and it now should be much more effective in HTH.

I'm gonna be stubborn and keep my unit leader upgrades, I'm the type of guy whos dice needs that LD boost. This should also satsify my vehcile craving with 8 pieces of armor on the table.

your starting to get it, and remember:
never...ever! mix your troops for multi tasks. Specific focus is better. I also played multi task tau for a while and it ate almost every nmys feet big time. Specified the squads: they got more fire, depending on what the nmy considered more dangerous, but 1*3 XV88 and 2 hammers got me the advantage, with 2*2 piranhas with fb. Confuse your nmy. Distract him. Make him think what to attack, sack a unite or two for the total annihilation of his army. Deception is what DE are good at - besides shooting and poisons.

The shooty configuration is to me the best.

If you realy want to go on cc, get Lelith+bloodbrides+syren with ago - personally like the hydra gauntlets and/or razor flails, but its your choice - +haywire for at, stick'em in a raider with flickerfield and shock prow, a succu with ago and haywire or the duke, + bloodbrides with upgrades as per previous, a normal sq of bloodbrides upgraded as per previous, all in raiders with shock and FF. For troops, wytches, fully upped with ago in raiders and 3 ravagers /w ff and shockprow. this is over 2k, but this is the army id take for melee - combat drugs in effect, tankshock and ramming like insane, poison+pw+ lots of cc, and if your useing it good, block your unites off of other nmy by sticking the raiders in between them and the other nmy sq, annihilate the choices you want, soot DLs on specific tanks...

Ok, this IS off the basic idea, but i think wytches are cheeper, can do the same amount of damage or more and Lelith is just A KILLER. Vs Meq she generally gets 9-4=5+4+1+1 attacks a round and ignores armor, decreases all in base nmy attacks by 1 to a minimum of 1, she wounds on 5+, ok, but the is HIT on 5+ Fair trade...ow, and dont forget the other wytches. decimate a squad? Incubi? Ok, they have PW, big deal.

Howling banshe have PW to, and although i like those sexy bit...ladies ^^, i'd still field scorpions, cause of the sheer amount of hits they can inflict. And the wytches, thanx to the grenades can also decimate nmy vehicles. d6 2-5 glance, 6 pen. Your vound to fail 2, get glance on 7 and one pen if not better. that is hard. LR? Charge in with one sq, kill it, charge in with everything else on the 7 termies and wipe'em out.

still, this IS over 2k, and does almost the same amount of damage, with a greater risk of losing a squad - for what if dice got is not willing. With shooty, your safer in the tank, than in the open, as wytches are, or incuby.

and dont forget: splinter weapons on venoms are counted as deffensive, so you can shoot with them as well, even though you moved 12" where as with a ravager, you can only shoot 1 dl. Good hunting.


query: whats with the razorwings and DE?? i see 'em more and more in the field, and keep failing more and more.

TBH - I like Night Shields - there's plenty of people for both camps in the end, and ultimately you're just gonna have to find out for yourself.

Personally I'm for them, that 6" bubble has saved my vehicles so, so many times, making meltas either completely out or only getting 1d6 to pen, saving me from rapid fire, etc, etc.

Razorwings are great fun and look awesome - who cares it they have 1 less lance and cost twice as much, they look cool and fire missiles at things! (I want another one myself)

In a fun idea you could try for a raider conversion.
When in store the other day I saw this:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat720003a&prodId=prod1460002a

Cut off the blades at the front of the lances on the front, and BAM - counts-as Raider / Ravager depending on how many you put on and you end up with a crapton of cool bitz. (When I have money I'm probably doing this as a ravager / dias model :3)

- As to the beasts, when I come to make mine at some point it'll be a box of hellions and a box of WHFB puppies from some race or other.

enfernux wrote:and dont forget: splinter weapons on venoms are counted as deffensive, so you can shoot with them as well, even though you moved 12" where as with a ravager, you can only shoot 1 dl. Good hunting.

Please look up the aerial assault special rule.

Ya know I can live with the leaders as sometimes that little boost comes up big. Just don't give them anything else. You still also only have 4 troops and the reavers could make almost 2 warrior squads. Definently if the other razors become ravagers. And nobody said you have to use those models...if it looks cool most people won't complain.

Akroma06 wrote:Ya know I can live with the leaders as sometimes that little boost comes up big. Just don't give them anything else. You still also only have 4 troops and the reavers could make almost 2 warrior squads. Definently if the other razors become ravagers. And nobody said you have to use those models...if it looks cool most people won't complain.

Reavers have to stay. They just look too cool to not have on the table top. Even if they sucked as hard as the old ork stikkbomma boys I'd still have the six bikes in my list.

Hmm, if you don't like the raider, you could try a radical conversion. Maybe use a Lizardman Stegadon and convert it into a raider. Kind of want to do the whole army like that then. Cold ones for reavers, dragons for venoms etc.

You might find the haem with the liquifier is a better HQ choice than the Succy due to that FNP token on the Wyches first up. Makes a big difference.

Corollax wrote:
Please look up the aerial assault special rule.

nice. Not that i didnt come out good in my battles not knowing, though it does make things a little more interesting

enfernux wrote:

Corollax wrote:
Please look up the aerial assault special rule.

nice. Not that i didnt come out good in my battles not knowing, though it does make things a little more interesting

Makes a bit of a difference.

I play 2 Ravagers and a Razorwing. I wish I had the opposite. I've had so much more luck with the Wing. Three rolls with Dark Lances sounds so good, but I don't seem to do too much with them.

As far as Reavers go. I recommend using them, but keep them really stripped down. They are a cheap way to steal objectives at the end of the game. I tend to hide them somewhere, and then move 36" in the last turn to contest whatever I need to.