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So, after losing with my rather fluffy old version of this list that had Canis and a big group of fen wolves in it, I decided to change it a little to make it more competitive. I would love some C&C on this list. I am currently debating taking out 1 LF from each pack to buff my WL with saga of the bear and giving my RP CotS, but I'm trying to not put anymore into my deathstar (although if it is considered a useful investment I will switch no doubt). I would also like some oppinions on my WL using a Wolfclaw over a Frost Blade. Thanks in advance!

Deathwolf List 2000 Points
HQ

Wolf Lord 245
Thunderwolf Mount
Runic Armor
Storm Shield
Frost Blade
Wolf Tail Talisman
2 Fenrisian Wolves

Rune Priest 100
Living Lightning
Jaws of the World Wolf

Troops

Grey Hunters Pack 185
8 Grey Hunters
1 w/ Meltagun
1 w/ Wolf Standard
1 w/ Mark of the Wulfen
Rhino

Grey Hunters Pack 200
9 Grey Hunters
1 w/ Meltagun
1 w/ Wolf Standard
1 w/ Mark of the Wulfen
Rhino

Grey Hunters Pack 200
9 Grey Hunters
1 w/ Meltagun
1 w/ Wolf Standard
1w/ Mark of the Wulfen
Rhino

Elites

Wolf Guard Pack 129
3 Wolf Guard
3 Power Fists
3 Combi Meltas

Fast Attack

Thunderwolf Cavalry 295
4 Thunderwolf Cavalry
1 w/ Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield
1 w/ Meltabombs
1 w/ Storm Shield

Heavy Support

Long Fangs Pack 215
6 Long Fangs
5 w/ Missile Launchers
Razorback
w/ Twin Linked Lascannons

Long Fangs Pack 215
6 Long Fangs
5 w/ Missile Launchers
Razorback
w/ Twin Linked Lascannons

Long Fangs Pack 215
6 Long Fangs
5 w/ Missile Launchers
Razorback
w/ Twin Linked Lascannons

*edit for forgetting to write the RP powers

Looks legit to me, I would probably drop 1 Thunderwolf for Saga of the Bear on the Lord to keep him around longer and with the leftover points grab a chooser for the Rune Priest.

Oh, but it hurts to lose one of my precious little puppies! It is still a Harald Deathwolf list! (My wolf lord is even named Harald ^^)

Yeah, I know that it is never pleasant to lose one of your precious dogs of war but sometimes it is better to do leave one at home so that when your Grey Knight opponent gets all smiles because they passed their Force Weapon, you can smile back and say "Cool, but he's Eternal Warrior".

Believe it or not, GK are my most common opponent. So, you believe it is best to lose one wolf rather than a long fang?

I'd second Unholy_Martyr on this. Honestly I think your Cavalry unit is overkill already so you won't really be losing as much as you think.

Eh, losing a Long Fang won't hurt either...it could do either way.

It's pretty much a win win scenario

Alright, thanks for the feedback! Any chance I can get some opinions on the Wolfclaw vs. the Frost Blade now? I've seen it ran both ways. What do you guys think fits best?

I firmly believe that fewer, more durable Thunderwolves are much more valuable than a larger pack of less durable Thunderwolves. Drop one Grey Hunter from each of the 9 man packs, and drop one Thunderwolf. That will give you enough points to give all of the Thunderwolves Storm Shields, and upgrade the Lord to have Saga of the Bear. This serves several purposes. First of all, it vastly increases the survivability of the Thunderwolves, especially against Instant Death, but it also frees up one slot in each transport for the Rune Priest. This allows you to quickly switch him to a new transport if his is destroyed.

Other than that, I can't really see adjusting anything else without completely re-arranging your troops choices. I tend to run 2x large packs in Rhinos and 2x small packs in Razorbacks for an extra scoring unit, but it would require dropping a Long Fang or two to free up enough points.

See Aldarionn, that is the kind of C&C I'm looking for. Anyway, I have ran the small units before and they NEVER perform up to par with the bigger groups. I understand how they look on paper but I can't get them to perform well enough for my playstyle. Plus, my favorite thing about the bigger grey hunter groups is the jump out and bolter them with the whole "come hither" attitude that I love from my grey hunters. I do like the multiple storm shield idea and will, in all honesty, take the advice. I love my thunderwolves and when I first made this list I was actually going to try and do the dual 3 man thunderwolves, but I went with the "Deathwolf" style with my wolf lord instead. Back to the small unit of grey hunters, I'll take any advice on using them to their fullest since they can't effectively support the bigger packs of grey hunters (all from my experiences).

In regards to the Frostblade vs the Wolf Claw.

A quick question for you, which are you having a harder time with, hitting or wounding? If it's hitting, the re-roll to hit of the Wolf Claws has promise, but a Wolftooth talisman makes you hit on a 3+ every time.

If it's wounding, then I'm going to assume you are facing a lot of high toughness opponents. Here's a quick break down on the math for you:

Chance to Wound with Frost Blade vs Target Toughness

T2: 5/6 plus Instant Death, T3 5/6 T4 2/3 T 5 1/2 T6 1/3 T7 1/6 T8 1/6 T9, T10: no chance.

Same with Wolf Claw:
T2: 35/36 plus instant death, T3: 8/9 T4: 3/4 T5: 5/9 T6: 11/36 T7: 11/36 T8 - T10: No chance

So your Wolf Claw does better up to T4 and is close on T 5, 6 and 7. At T 8 it drops off the table.

Now I haven't been looking at all the other stuff you've got going in regards to points, but have you considered a Belt of Russ? yes it's save isn't as good as the storm shields, but it allows you to carry a second hand weapon. If you go with the Bolt Pistol that's an extra attack for the Frost Blade right there. If you'd prefer Wolf Claws with the extra attack you need a matched set.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
So size up what you usually face and run a bit of math and decide which combo best fits what you want to do offensively.

Wolf Claw vs Frost Blade:

S5 and re-rolls to hit will wound more Marines than a S6 weapon. It's really not much of a contest. Either way you need a 4+ to hit, but with the Wolf Claw you get to re-roll your to hit. You end up wounding on a 3+ instead of a 2+, but given you hit more its worth the trade off. Plus its 5 points cheaper and Thunderwolves are expensive enough.

Now, on your HQ choice I would go with the Frost Blade. Hitting on a 3+ is generally good enough on its own and I love being S6 with Saga of the Warrior Born.

Norserune wrote:See Aldarionn, that is the kind of C&C I'm looking for. Anyway, I have ran the small units before and they NEVER perform up to par with the bigger groups. I understand how they look on paper but I can't get them to perform well enough for my playstyle. Plus, my favorite thing about the bigger grey hunter groups is the jump out and bolter them with the whole "come hither" attitude that I love from my grey hunters. I do like the multiple storm shield idea and will, in all honesty, take the advice. I love my thunderwolves and when I first made this list I was actually going to try and do the dual 3 man thunderwolves, but I went with the "Deathwolf" style with my wolf lord instead. Back to the small unit of grey hunters, I'll take any advice on using them to their fullest since they can't effectively support the bigger packs of grey hunters (all from my experiences).

See, I think you might have an issue with the way you use the smaller packs. They aren't there to be effective battlefield combatants by any stretch of the imagination. They are there to hold objectives, and their RAZORBACK is there to be an effective battlefield combatant. Take the following list for instance:

Wolf Lord (Thunderwolf, Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield, Saga of the Bear) - 240
Rune Priest (Living Lightning, Jaws) - 100
4 Wolf Guard (2x Power Fist, 4x Combi-Melta) - 132
8 Grey Hunters (Meltagun, Wolf Standard, Mark of the Wulfen, Rhino) - 185
8 Grey Hunters (Meltagun, Wolf Standard, Mark of the Wulfen, Rhino) - 185
5 Grey Hunters (Meltagun, Razorback w/ TL Las) - 155
5 Grey Hunters (Meltagun, Razorback w/ TL Las) - 155
3 Thunderwolves (Thunder Hammer, 3x Storm Shield, Meltabomb) - 275
5 Long Fangs (4 Missile Launchers, Razorback w/ TL Las) - 190
5 Long Fangs (4 Missile Launchers, Razorback w/ TL Las) - 190
5 Long Fangs (4 Missile Launchers, Razorback w/ TL Las) - 190
Total 1,997

With this list, the general strategy I would employ is to deploy the Long Fangs in cover, then use the Thunderwolves strung out in front of my army to provide cover to the transports. All of the Razorbacks castle up wherever it's convenient, and the 8 man Grey Hunter units advance with the Thunderwolves as my primary striking force. The 5 man packs sit on objectives and act as a counter to any vehicles that attempt to hit my back line, or any reserves that try to take out my Long Fangs. In a pinch, they both assault an outflanking/infiltrating unit together to give me the best chance of success. Their Meltaguns are a deterrent against vehicles attempting to tank-shock onto an objective, and can be used to take out fast moving transports that move into my backfield and threaten my Long Fangs.

Up front, the Grey Hunters in the Rhinos use a Rhino-Rush strategy, backed up by a Thunderwolf counter-assault. The two units work together to isolate and destroy a unit while the Thunderwolves flank to one side or the other. If they can charge something, fine. But if not, they can counter-assault anything that attacks the Grey Hunters (who are reasonably effective in assault in their own right). I've found that I like having a Thunder Hammer on my Wolf Lord, particularly against Grey Knights. He can deal with Paladins in melee on his own, assuming he survives the initial attacks, and he can hold his own against a Dreadnought. Having Saga of the Bear on him lets him tango with anything that throws Instant Death. I often split him from the Thunderwolves when I'm ready to assault and use him to chase down vehicles. He's particularly effective against squadrons of vehicles since he can wreck or explode all of them in a single turn if he gets decent rolls.

I've been using Thunderwolves less and less lately because I find that some of the more shooty armies can deal with them too easily. Necrons terrify me, because Mindshackle Scarabs mean my Wolf Lord could rip apart the rest of my Thunderwolves with a bad roll (Hence the reason I make sure to always have at least one casting of Jaws of the World Wolf in my lists these days). As a result, I've found myself using Njal MUCH more than any other HQ, and I usually take a secondary Rune Priest to go with him. I know your list is designed for a core of Thunderwolves, but the above list could easily support Njal as well by swapping him in place of the Wolf Lord, and turning the Thunderwolves into a third large pack of Grey Hunters in a Rhino. Any leftover points can be used to add Long Fangs to the existing packs. If you are ever looking to switch things up sometime, or you find that the Thunderwolves are having trouble, consider giving that option a try. I've found it very effective .

Well, Aldarionn, that post is getting exalted! Thanks for the help! I love that list and will most likely try out my three big grey hunter groups and your list seperately and see which one I like the most. Thanks for the brief tactica of that list as well. It feels bad using my wolf lord for purely assaulting a vehicle, but if I used him to crack a land raider and then use my T-wolves to start eating what came out sounds like pure brilliance.

Anychance I could get your opinion on using a list with some T-wolves and work Canis and some Fen wolves in that could be considered semi-competitive? My main focus is a fun list over a winner, but getting your list eaten time and time again isn't fun... Or even a lower point version of this list XD I don't mean to turn this into a "please help me!" post, but the truth of the matter is that this list will be expensive and if I'm going to build this list, I need to know what "landmarks" I can mark off. For instance if I knew a 1500 point list that used mostly similar models (give or take a few) I would buy my way to that point then expand to get the desired list.