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Howdy boyz, so i find myself struggling to produce threatening encounters without it overwhelming the party in game. I find myself referencing things like DH rule book and creature anathema pretty often i suppose the root cause if the fact we have an Ork in the group and pump shotguns just fly off his eavy armor and TB (10) I don't want to have overwhelming tools used like rokkit launchers but I suppose grenades couldn't hurt. All and all i am wondering if getting books like Deathwatch or the like would increase the likelihood of challenging a group that uses sanctioned Xenos

It's not going to be easy to create balance if you've got Orks. The Unnatural trait is so powerful, particularly when applied to Toughness, that it can easily break the game.

I haven't got any PCs with Unnatural characteristics in my games, but based on a couple of NPCs I've dealt with, I've houseruled Unnatural to an extra +X to their bonus (which will continue if any PCs do get Unnatural). Unnatural (2) is therefore a +2, rather than x2. That's still a big bonus, but small enough that characters with Unnatural characteristics actually still just about obey the laws of nature.

But seeing as your PCs are used to the normal version, if they're of the wrong mindset, it could be difficult to push that change through though.

Without retconning the rules, here's some ideas:

Write some aliens with exotic weapons with generous Pen values, and perhaps the Felling trait from Deathwatch (Every level of felling ignores a level of Unnatural Toughness). Of course, when the PCs ask if they can use those weapons, choose from the following:
- "You pick up the weapon and study it. You cannot see anything recognisable as a trigger, or indeed, any controls at all."
- "You attempt to pick up the weapon. As soon as your fingers brush the surface, it sparks violently and sears the skin off your fingertips."

Start forcing the Ork to make upkeep tests on that armour, if he's just going to waltz through combat letting it take a pounding.

Just generally have people pick on the Ork - he's the biggest, ugliest mother in the group, so of course they're going to shoot him. Enough bolt or plasma gun fire (particularly if these are crack enemies who might happen to have Weapon Master or Mighty Shot - some damage bonus that won't transfer to the PCs if they take the weapons) will wear him down eventually.

already have an rp hook with some renegade bandits which are ship hunters using grenade launchers to take out vehicles in the ship yards on a frontier world similar to a western/fallout. I imagine a few krak gernades will get him starting to second guess the bandits. Also i think i need to start holding down the ork with pinning fire from things like a heavy stubber or the like since they are taking spoils or war. Do you think warbikes might be too much as well? My problem is not hurting the ork i can find methods but it is more or less overkill to the others. I suppose turning him on the enemy by using pychic attackers which will compel the ork is a good tactic too.

Any suggestions for specific creatures which might scare him as a player? I am wanting to get something bigger and beefier than him out on the field so he will actually have to work on the battle tactics rather than run in and stomp 20 hullghasts with no worry to his health.

Melta weapons will also help to ruin the Ork's day. I wouldn't worry about over powering against the players though as the players have their fate points to fall back on and whenever I've tried to not be overpowered against my players they've almost strolled through the encounter.

The other way to look at it is as word gets round about how heavily defended they are any coming for them will bring appropriate equipment since their rivals are other RTs with just as much resource to call on as them.

thanks for the assistance so far, I'd like to tone down the ork but I will be trying to use minimal force to represent the bandit's resources though the occasional tank hunting tool will be used in stead

I would let them win their combat encounters handily, but make the ship to ship battles hair raising and up the difficulty on other things. If you don't plan around personal combat, it's easier to challenge them.

Also, think about talking to the Ork player about toning down his rules, or use the Horde rules from Deathwatch.

You could also always try for something funny like the graviton gun or heavy webber (Arbites riot control weapon) as unnatural toughness wont help the Ork if he is pinned to the floor unable to move.

Something like a Navigator of a psyker using psychic scream should also tone down the Ork as they ignore TB and armour (and I'm assuming will power isn't the Ork's highest stat). Or set fire to him with a flamer as once you are on fire it's a willpower check to not waste your turn running round screaming rather than contributing to the fight. The fire damage is unlikely to kill the Ork but will help to keep him out of the fight.

Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:My problem is not hurting the ork i can find methods but it is more or less overkill to the others.

It needn't be. He's the biggest, nastiest target, so it's perfectly plausible that the bad guys with the big guns would focus on him rather than his allies.

I suppose turning him on the enemy by using pychic attackers which will compel the ork is a good tactic too.

Psychic attacks sound good. Toughness won't help against telepathy.

Any suggestions for specific creatures which might scare him as a player?

It's your game and a big galaxy full of lots of different scary things. Write something.

Assuming he's a close combat ork, something very strong and fast, with acid blood. That'd make attacking it in close combat very dangerous (if it attacks you, it'll rip you in two. If you attack it, best hope you don't get any of the blood on you. Or your armour. Or your weapons).

Mk After skimming over my book i think I found the ticket for a good mix of combat skill and Ork cracking, Since these outlaw/renegades are more or less the equvilent of Fall out raiders i decided the Scout Bike is a pretty decent tool to use since it comes with the Twin-linked Boltguns and a Grenade launcher to boot. This in my mind gives the the speed they'd need to chase after a ship which is taking off or landing near the skyport and gives them the weaponry to not really fear the native orkish population in the wilderness if they are in numbers. The Biker gang is gonna be about 4 guys with some mortar and basic renegade support to boot as a typical base protection. The Bikers themselves if they find their prey is getting too far into the air or gained too much distance they carry a rocket launcher on the back of the bike for a more intense hit. I am only going to give them 1 rocket each. To make sure the Mortars aren't too strong i plan to use the tubes which only can fire 1 per every other round. and have them fire indirectly till the rogue trader and his crew dive into combat with them.

All and all....

3-4 scout Bikers using the Renegade profile (adding the drive ground vehicle skill)
2-3 mortar shellers with no real limit to ammo (due to being their base)
7-10 basic renegades with generic weaponry like autoguns or the lilke.

All and all it forces the group to invade rather than let the enemy come to them which to me makes sense since they are trying to break up this ring of renegades and stop them from tank hunting out in the dusty wastes. When they do start to advance is when they will see the bikers rush out and focus on that big ugly ork dropping a few krak grenades down his throat to actually wound him (i haven't been able to for 4 !). The main reason i like this is the fact that anyone can snipe the renegade since his bike is open topped which many of our players are good marksmen and one uses a long las so it will be his time to shine. The basic renegades will be protecting the mortars so should the ork not be too badly hurt he will find himself with an incentive to get to those mortars and if he does a reward after having to deal with those vicious bikers.

I also plan to have a small tunnel which will give a sanctuary from the mortar fire should the damage get too uncontrollable but with them firing indirect till them i can't imagine it will be. I already thought of the reasons why this encounter isn't over the top as the group made quite the show with their high technology on a struggling frontier world with a crime problem. Firing off plasma pistols and walking through Town with an Ork in their company is plenty to note these people need to be met with extreme force.

Anyway opinions?