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A few tips on killing dreadnoughts


This post is about destroying light vehicles with nids but they are mainly aimed at dreadnoughts not rhinos,vindicators or land raiders.

tip 1

zoanthropes. warp lance. Nuff said.

tip 2

If you do not have a zoanthrope a simpler cheaper way is 8 genestealers.
however it is lesss risky to use 16 genestealers espacially If they have flamers.
Genestealers with rippers to finish off the dreadnought.

tip 3

monstrous creatures are not advised, unless are in cover thanks to handy (but expensive) carnifexes as they are allways targeted first. use fexes and tyrants( with Hvenon cannons) or a tyranofex with a rupture cannon to get rid of light vehicles.

... Send in ANY MC with a higher initiative.

I love dreadnoughts when I play heavy MC daemons They always die before they get to swing back

Surely Hive Guard are first choice for killing any AV11, 12 maybe even 13.

Zooanthropes are ok, but if your up against Dreads, unless your playing Ork Dreads, there will probably be a Librarian around making Zooanthropes not as effective.
Also genestealers, can kill Dreads but they aren't the most reliable choice either.
MCs are fine against Dreads, there isn't a Dread other than maybe blood talons furioso (or Librarian furioso?) who could kill a MC in one go. So having 3+ attacks back, you have pretty much as good a chance as the Stealers (if not better) at killing a dread.

rodgers37 wrote:Surely Hive Guard are first choice for killing any AV11, 12 maybe even 13.

Zooanthropes are ok, but if your up against Dreads, unless your playing Ork Dreads, there will probably be a Librarian around making Zooanthropes not as effective.
Also genestealers, can kill Dreads but they aren't the most reliable choice either.
MCs are fine against Dreads, there isn't a Dread other than maybe blood talons furioso (or Librarian furioso?) who could kill a MC in one go. So having 3+ attacks back, you have pretty much as good a chance as the Stealers (if not better) at killing a dread.

true, but I have never played hive guard and I have destroyed a vindicator with a single warp lance.

kshaw2000 wrote:true, but I have never played hive guard and I have destroyed a vindicator with a single warp lance.

I've never played zoanthropes and I've killed a vindicator with a single shot from a Hive Guard.

I've also never had a Hive Guard insta-killed because of a lascannon, missile, melta, lance, powerfist or any other such S8+ weapons.....hell they're usually out of sight so I rarely lose them at all.

Send big horrible monsters after it. If you want to try, you can use a Rupture Cannon on a Tyrannofex should the situation become desperate. If you manage to hit the rear armour that's an auto-penetrating hit.

Nungunz wrote:I've also never had a Hive Guard insta-killed because of a lascannon, missile, melta, lance, powerfist or any other such S8+ weapons.....hell they're usually out of sight so I rarely lose them at all.

Since hive guard usually slog it up the field to make sure they can get what they need to shoot down within 24"...you can actually assault with them!

Assaulting that tac squad on an objective that doesn't have a fist with 3 T6 2?3?Wound 4+ save monsters because you have no more vehicles to blow? absolutely priceless

Charging with a Scything Talon, Adrenal Gland, Fex always does the trick. 5 Attacks that re-roll all misses at I4 and S10 +2d6? Yes please! Sure some of you may say that they will get shot to death before they get into combat, but the cover save from the 30 gargoyles seems to help and my opponents are normally more focused on the 2 Tervigons.

Jihallah wrote:Since hive guard usually slog it up the field to make sure they can get what they need to shoot down within 24"...you can actually assault with them!

Assaulting that tac squad on an objective that doesn't have a fist with 3 T6 2?3?Wound 4+ save monsters because you have no more vehicles to blow? absolutely priceless

Is true. I've finished off the last of a BT Crusader Squad this way.

true, but I have never played hive guard and I have destroyed a vindicator with a single warp lance.

Three things. First, Hive Guard may be the most indispensable unit in a competitive Nid army. Second, Zoenthropes, while potentially very good also have to jump through far too many hoops to be considered completely effective. Rolling a psychic test, to hit, to penetrate armor, and finally on the vehicle damage table is already a step further than most. This is before counting psychic defense (hint, GK, Eldar, and Space Wolves are all particularly brutal to Zoeys). Finally, anecdotal evidence is incredibly poor proof, especially when it involves something that isn't likely to happen consistently. A lone guardsmen once killed a Carnifex...who cares? It won't happen all the time or even most of the time.

2 gun drones once beat down a sqiad of assault terminators (The sheer number of 1s that marine player rolled was hilarious) but that doesn't mean Tau Drones are an effective termihunters squad.

From what I recall last time I played against nids, warriors, tyrants and 'fexes have access to a fair amount of str8-9 or so weapons. I'd have thought simply shooting it with those till it fell over woild do the trick.

OP is lost, rodgers37 knows where it's at. Also JGrand, he's on the money with his assessment of Zoans

tip 1
zoanthropes. warp lance. Nuff said.

JGrand nailed this one. I'll throw in that zoans are double crappy against GKs though. Bad range + frequent psy defense + reinforce aegis = LOL no. Even without Aegis and psy defense in the game, they are still sub-par choices.

tip 2

If you do not have a zoanthrope a simpler cheaper way is 8 genestealers.
however it is lesss risky to use 16 genestealers espacially If they have flamers.
Genestealers with rippers to finish off the dreadnought.

NEVER send stealers into a dreadnought unless you are desperate AND have a broodlord and ideally adrenal glands. Swinging against AV 12 means you need a 3+ to hit, 6 to rend and 3-4 to glance, 5-6 to pen. It will take on average 81 genestealer attacks to KILL an AV12 dread in combat. The dread will step on 1-2 stealers and either force more no retreat wounds, or if out of synapse a break test that could result in a dead squad. LAST RESORT ONLY.

Also, NEVER sent rippers in with them, oh god that's dumb. Dread would throw all his attacks on the ripper bases and instead of each wound accounting for 1 for combat res, it's worth 3. That breaktest/no retreat will be BRUTAL. I once threw 5 raveners into a dread figuring "Hey, 25+ rending attacks should do it!" whiffed the damage, only getting a shaken result. Dread smacks 2 raveners dead and I get to suffer 6 no retreat saves. 175 squad is reduced to 2 models in 1 round of combat. NEVER AGAIN.

tip 3

monstrous creatures are not advised, unless are in cover thanks to handy (but expensive) carnifexes as they are allways targeted first. use fexes and tyrants( with Hvenon cannons) or a tyranofex with a rupture cannon to get rid of light vehicles.

I strongly suggest MCs actually. A tyrant or better yet, Trygon with adrenal glands will bury a dread before it swings quite often. If it doesn't kill it, they will at least stun/immob/wreck it's combat arm so you are taking less damage in return. I don't think there's a unit in the game (outside mephiston and maybe Lysander) that can bury a dread faster in melee then a Trygon.

Generally light armor should be dealt with via Hive Guard. Have them focus on AV10-12 targets and use your MCs to wreck the big baddies, aka heavy dreads and land raiders.

Carnage43 wrote:

tip 3

monstrous creatures are not advised, unless are in cover thanks to handy (but expensive) carnifexes as they are allways targeted first. use fexes and tyrants( with Hvenon cannons) or a tyranofex with a rupture cannon to get rid of light vehicles.

I strongly suggest MCs actually. A tyrant or better yet, Trygon with adrenal glands will bury a dread before it swings quite often. If it doesn't kill it, they will at least stun/immob/wreck it's combat arm so you are taking less damage in return. I don't think there's a unit in the game (outside mephiston and maybe Lysander) that can bury a dread faster in melee then a Trygon.

That would be the KoS- I10 helps that
Yeah I don't know what this whole "don't send MC's at dreads!" thing is. If you have a carnifex with only 1/2 wounds left, then yeah charging into a dread has a good chance of killing you.
Fresh dread vs fresh MC=dead dread. Fresh dread vs wounded MC with no invul (im lookin' at you nids) and they fight simultaneously (or the MC is lower Initiative)= dead MC
Fresh dread vs wounded MC that swings before it? Dead dread. Dreads get trashed by MC's. My daemon army is yet to lose a MC against a dread. My daemon army has only ever killed dreads with one thing- not bolt, not soulgrinders- MC's.

As a 14 year veteran of bugs, 2 things must be said:

1. The current book is poo.

2. The options have never been so limited for killing AV13.

I used to lob toxic spore mines on to LRBT's and RELIABLY kill them. By reliably I mean 83% of the time I'd bag one high value tank on the first or second turn. S3+2D6 isn't great, but I always managed to get 5's or 6's, especially when I got 3 chances each turn.

I used to just throw individual carnifex's at them with max attacks. Munch munch munch,

I used to make my tyrant the venom sniper (BS4, S8, twin linked). If I wanted a dread to not shoot or move, consider it done.

....

But that was when we were still very competitive. Nowadays I have found 2 reliable options:

1. Hive guard (obvious)
2. Trygons (with adrenals)

Hive guard reliably make vindicators stop shooting in my world, routinely demolish AV12, and make nobz cringe. Making AV13 go away? Doesn't happen very often.

With 7 I5 and S7 + 2d6 there's nothing better in the current book for RELIABLE damage and reasonable points. The basic carnifex is 175. That makes a "squad" of them at least 360... Two trygons genuinely work at virtually any points level. My problem with carnifexes, even though I love them, is their incredible cost. Also, the trygon gives you speed. Fleet +3d6 through cover is amazing. That and they can shoot relatively well if they can get behind a vehicle. I've opened up a fair share of vehicles with shooting.