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Having our Necron player roll a D6 for 100+ units each turn during the game to see if they got hit by lightning certainly ruined the game (he had to watch each unit's roll)...

Not really all that important but hey: it's Matt F****** Ward.
What did you expect?

So have the organizers rule that:
a) His power doesn't work in apoc
b) it only works in a certain radius
c) it works in some entirely different manner

Apoc is basically a hugely wacky beast. You have to squint past some things in order to have fun and the real objective on Apoc is to have fun.

Oaka wrote:Having our Necron player roll a D6 for 100+ units each turn during the game to see if they got hit by lightning certainly ruined the game (he had to watch each unit's roll)...

BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Oh I wish I could have been there

Brother Coa wrote:Not really all that important but hey: it's Matt F****** Ward.
What did you expect?

Draigo'd in one.

Glad we're blaming Apoc balance on Ward now, because nothing was ever unbalanced or annoying in Apoc before he showed up. Is there anything he can't do?

Brother Coa wrote:Not really all that important but hey: it's Matt F****** Ward.
What did you expect?

This does not help anyone.
You should have thought of that before the game started. Either he accepts what you say so he doesn't have to watch each dice roll or you figure out a way to cut down the dice rolls that you both agree with.

Maelstrom808 wrote:

BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Oh I wish I could have been there

You really didn't. It's not like anyone can even begin their movement phase until the lightning strikes are resolved, so a dozen people are just waiting around for about a half hour at the beginning of each turn (I don't even think an Apoc game with multiple Imotekhs is even playable).

jk, guys.
It must have been painful doing all that.
But how then you do Imperial Guard when you are in apoc game? You also need to roll for each Guardsman to fire.

Brother Coa wrote:jk, guys.
It must have been painful doing all that.
But how then you do Imperial Guard when you are in apoc game? You also need to roll for each Guardsman to fire.

Usually, in massive games, players can go out of turn sequence in order to resolve their unit's actions against another player's unit. When one player has to resolve simultaneous actions against everyone else, there really is no other option that to wait it out.

Brother Coa wrote:jk, guys.
It must have been painful doing all that.
But how then you do Imperial Guard when you are in apoc game? You also need to roll for each Guardsman to fire.

How common is it for every single Guardsman to be in range all at once?
You really should have thought about this or offered a compromise when it became apparent it would be a problem...

pretre wrote:Glad we're blaming Apoc balance on Ward now, because nothing was ever unbalanced or annoying in Apoc before he showed up. Is there anything he can't do?

Hmm, what other Codex does that remind me of ... oh yeah, rolling Faith points.

That aside, this does sound hilarious, even if it must've been a pita.

pretre wrote:So have the organizers rule that:
a) His power doesn't work in apoc
b) it only works in a certain radius
c) it works in some entirely different manner

Apoc is basically a hugely wacky beast. You have to squint past some things in order to have fun and the real objective on Apoc is to have fun.

That is right.

Apoc isn't a balanced game. It's an excuse for putting a lot of models on the table and taking them off again quickly.

Well they are balanced in way of numbers at least ( 10.000 point army vs. 10.000 point army ).
The rest really depends on how much strong units you have in your army. If you have to much weak ones you will sure lose a lot of them really quickly.

Lynata wrote:

pretre wrote:Glad we're blaming Apoc balance on Ward now, because nothing was ever unbalanced or annoying in Apoc before he showed up. Is there anything he can't do?

Hmm, what other Codex does that remind me of ... oh yeah, rolling Faith points.

That aside, this does sound hilarious, even if it must've been a pita.

Wait, what does Faith points have to do with stopping an entire game of apoc to roll individually for each enemy unit? I are cornfused.

purplefood wrote:
You really should have thought about this or offered a compromise when it became apparent it would be a problem...

Our 'compromise' was every single deepstriking unit landed near him on turn three to wipe him out (can't shoot at him with titan weapons due to night fight!).

Brother Coa wrote:Well they are balanced in way of numbers at least ( 10.000 point army vs. 10.000 point army ).
The rest really depends on how much strong units you have in your army. If you have to much weak ones you will sure lose a lot of them really quickly.

Yeah, they are theoretically balanced. I think you'll find that if you do not play apoc as a collaborative effort and try to make it competitive, it breaks down pretty quick.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Oaka wrote:

purplefood wrote:
You really should have thought about this or offered a compromise when it became apparent it would be a problem...

Our compromise was every single deepstriking unit landed near him on turn three to wipe him out (can't shoot at him with titan weapons due to night fight!).

Yeaaaahh... That word doesn't mean what you think it means.

pretre wrote:Yeaaaahh... That word doesn't mean what you think it means.

Maybe it's, say, a figure of speech ?
Like the negociation scene in the Fifth Element. Or if you named a Titan "Diplomacy".

It even tells you, from memory, to limit "board wide" effects to much smaller areas in Apocalypse.

So yeah, Imotekh wasnt at fault - players not playing Apocalypse in the way it was intended are.

Oaka wrote: It's not like anyone can even begin their movement phase until the lightning strikes are resolved, so a dozen people are just waiting around for about a half hour at the beginning of each turn (I don't even think an Apoc game with multiple Imotekhs is even playable).

Are you kidding me?

Did the **** insist on rolling every dice himself, and did you ***** let him?
Didn't anybody from his team say; "Ok, I'll roll for units on this end of the table, Adam will do those next to me. Brian will do the other end with Charlie helping him. And Necron Boy can do the middle. Lets go!"?

I'd make a cap on units he can affect with it (maybe like 20) or 3d6 per army or something

Given that the word from GW has repeatedly been you should consider limiting tablewide effects in Apocalypse, this is more the OP's and his buds' fault than anyone else's.

pretre wrote:Wait, what does Faith points have to do with stopping an entire game of apoc to roll individually for each enemy unit? I are cornfused.

It's not stopping the game, but it is essentially the same core issue: some rule not taking potential army size into account. Not a gamebreaker (just like 100xd6 isn't), just bad design.

Cryage wrote:I'd make a cap on units he can affect with it (maybe like 20) or 3d6 per army or something

The most sensible solution without drastically rewriting his rules/stats/point cost, yeah.

The best way would be to make the number of affected units depend on total army size. Like: roll once for every X minis or something like that. Would also work for Faith points. In the case of Imotekh, however, this might necessitate a re-examination of his point cost as he'd hit less targets in normal games.

Another problem would be to determine which units would be hit, but maybe this can be determined based on proximity to Imotekh. Or just do away with numbers completely and use a big blast template and have everyone under it do the roll.

Nope, thje most sensible solution is the one suggested in the book - his effect is limited to an area around him, and him only. Done

Apoc isn't supposed to be super balanced anyway. The point of it is so you can play all of your minis in a single game.

Oaka wrote:

purplefood wrote:
You really should have thought about this or offered a compromise when it became apparent it would be a problem...

Our 'compromise' was every single deepstriking unit landed near him on turn three to wipe him out (can't shoot at him with titan weapons due to night fight!).

I would have shot every single barrage weapon I had at him. The ability to cut through night fighting by just adding an extra d6 scatter is awesome. I just wish it was more useful in dawn of war games.

Why not make it a 72" radius around imotekh? I mean thats what hes hitting on a typical game board... seems fair enough

Brother Coa wrote:Not really all that important but hey: it's Matt F****** Ward.
What did you expect?

Please stop beating the dead horse. I'm pretty sure it's glue by now.

In other news, a unit not designed for balanced play in Apocalypse? What a shocker! I do think it's hilarious and a rules oversight, but you can just houserule it without much of an issue. Just have the storm work on units within 36" of Imotekh, it's easy to figure the stormcloud follows him around.

pretre wrote:Apoc is basically a hugely wacky beast. You have to squint past some things in order to have fun and the real objective on Apoc is to have fun.

Apoc is fun? That's news to me!

I think making it a radius of, say, (table width / 6)*D6 inches would be fair.

However, if I were using Imotekh, here's what I would do:

" *ahem* Everyone roll a D6 for each unit you have. If that unit gets a six, then roll it again to see how many hits it takes."

Because honestly, if someone wanted to cheat a Apoc, there are far, far more effective ways of doing it than claiming Imotekh only hit twice instead of five times.

Well, without even using Imotekh, Night Fight rules in Apocalypse are seriously messed up.

It's not that hard to get 5 royal court and 5 Solar Pulse cryptek in those point range either.

That guy that make the entire board difficult terrain in the first turn will be a riot too...but at least it's only 1 turn.