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Hey guys, essentially I am newer to 40k being a painter before a player so I only have 2ish games under my belt. My friend got AOBR and I was thinking about trying to play some small point Battle Missions or Kill Team games. I was trying to figure out how many points to make it that we could use the AOBR armies in their entirety. I already have some Nids and Tau (more Tau less Nids) and was looking to get some "rule learning" games in an maybe even attract some people who normally wouldn't have played.

Thanks!
Ben

The orks are about 500 points, the marines are a lot more than that.

It's common practice to leave out the marine's dreadnought to even the scales.

Thanks very much! I thought that it looked like there were more marines point wise than Orks. But I didn't know if it came out more even when the Orks had their wargear pimped out...

Part of the problem is the Dread having AV12. The koptaz are the only thing that are really able to handle that. While the warboss might be able to kill it, he might just as well die to instant death.

Pimping out the orks doesn't help much, as you are missing models for vital upgrades in almost all units (nob for boyz mob, pain boy for nobz, powerklaws for all of them), so you can only get upgrade which aren't really worth their points anyways. I guess you could add a nobz box to push the orks to 750, rather than dropping the dread.

My girlfriend and I picked up AOBR just to get the models for some armies to start. We did think it was hilarious how the space marines are a few hundred points ahead.

Makes me sad that they want marines to win so boost their sales and think orcs are just fodder. It even recommends ignoring most special rules like power claws and mob rules for the first few games o.o.

But if you were to ignore WYSIWYG (except for things like the pain boy and extra nobs) and just say they had the wargear you wanted, even then it would still be to lopsided? I'm just pitching out questions to get a feel since I play Tau and am just starting Nids so I am not too familiar with SM and Orks

One of the booklets that comes with it - I forget which one exactly - tells you the total points value for each unit and each side as a whole.

If you take out the Dreadnought, I believe they become exactly even in terms of points.

The booklets lie. The points are as follows using exactly WYSIWYG :

Space marines: 590 points, normally extra armor is added, so that comes to 605 points

Orks: 490 points, this assumes ard armor on the warboss and nobs, and cybork upgrades on the warboss

Base value, for WYSIWYG, marines have 100 points above the orks, also remember that only the ork force could be legally played, since in this case the nobs can count as troops because there is a warboss.

juraigamer wrote: also remember that only the ork force could be legally played, since in this case the nobs can count as troops because there is a warboss.

You can if you go slightly less that WYSIWYG and just count the flamer and ML as normal bolter marines.

Ahhhhhhh didn't think of that! Thanks! I think my buddies have enough extra marine stuffs to proxy in or just straight up use in a small points game. I just am trying to figure out a fun, easy and manageable way to get a good feel for the rules, check out other armies and maybe get new players interested. Any ideas on this angle? Maybe like run a squad or platoon based "campaign"?

The Combat Patrol rules work very well for small games, they can also be a load of fun.

http://www.adepticon.org/11rules/2011cp.pdf

juraigamer wrote:The booklets lie. The points are as follows using exactly WYSIWYG :

Space marines: 590 points, normally extra armor is added, so that comes to 605 points

Orks: 490 points, this assumes ard armor on the warboss and nobs, and cybork upgrades on the warboss

Base value, for WYSIWYG, marines have 100 points above the orks, also remember that only the ork force could be legally played, since in this case the nobs can count as troops because there is a warboss.

Umm... You do know that Ork Boyz can legally be fielded in mobs of 10, right? And that the AoBR set comes with 20 Boyz?

I'll admit that mobs of 10 Boyz aren't that useful, particularly when without Trukks, but they CAN be fielded as such.

And a dreadnought with multi-melta and DCCW with stormbolter costs under 110 points, so as I said, taking it out makes it roughly even.

Doesn't change the fact that the ork army is pretty much unable to handle the dread. If the marine player kills the three koptaz, he has already won the game.

Jidmah wrote:Doesn't change the fact that the ork army is pretty much unable to handle the dread. If the marine player kills the three koptaz, he has already won the game.

I had an almost uncontrollable urge to be rude about the fact that my previous posts in this thread have all involved removing the dreadnought to equalize the points.

Sorry, I'm still drinking my first coffee this morning, not fully awake yet

Jidmah wrote:Sorry, I'm still drinking my first coffee this morning, not fully awake yet

Then I'm glad I controlled that urge. ^_^

If you are starting out and want to get a feel/have some fun dont bother with WYSIWYG.
You can equip the Nobs with better hth weapons that will allow you to take out the Dreadnought.
It will also give you better experience of the game since you will have to learn with how to deal with the Dread in both shooting/hth rather than excluding him until you get proper models.
Learning early is always valuable, limiting yourself due to WYSIWYG isnt necessary imo, especially in a friendly environment.

I agree WYSIWYG is more for when you get more of a grasp on the game. Want to try out meltaguns, then the flamer can counts as. Just need to keep it clear so it doesn't get confusing; the whole reason for WYSIWYG (besides having to buy extra ).

:: nod nod :: Agreed on Ratius and n0t_u's posts. The game is expensive enough as it is without having to buy before you try. :: giggles :: That rhymed.

Space Marines outpoint Orks by quite a bit

Well apparently I was misunderstood or I worded things wrong (sometimes you could swear English was like a 3rd or 4th language for me instead of primary language...) I was trying to say we don't care about WYSIWYG so I was trying to ask for the points without WYSIWIG. Essentially in a friendly game it looks as if they aren't sooooooooo out of balance.

Ah without WYSISYG you can go nuts really.
Dont have codici at hand but Im sure others will make up some nice points equalisation lists.

Mmmmk this, like I said, is meant to be small point (under 1000) games to get used to rules and check out new armies. Amongst my 2 friends I am thinking of and my sister I think we have: Grey Knights (hehehe like 1 pally for a small point games!), Dark Eldar, Space Wolves, Space Marines (AOBR), Orks (AOBR), Tau, and Nids. So we got effectively have some SWEET games especially since we are all new and want to try out the different play styles and learn. Sounds like it could be very interesting!

Play a league, document it with pics and put it in the batrep forum
I think it would be great reading, seeing as everyone is new to the game and all on equal footings.

Hmmmm yes it would though I can here the FIRESTORM of missed rules comments I'll have to try it soon. Maybe this weekend...

Benamint wrote:Hmmmm yes it would though I can here the FIRESTORM of missed rules comments I'll have to try it soon. Maybe this weekend...

Just make it clear that you're running the league with all new players under the intention of learning. With that in mind each game should progressively get cleaner from a rules perspective as well as bigger as each player assembles more models.

Hecklers be damned, but helpful rule clarifiers will actually be a big help because it will allow you to see where you went wrong and then have it explained in a context involving your models to make it easier to see the correction. So, the league might not be a bad idea.

Oh yes I have no problem with people with the intention of just purely helping out. I always want to know if I am doing something wrong. What I have a problem with is the hecklers and people who rant about the lists. Most of the time the lists are less than optimal or off balance because we are just learning, don't have the money, liked the way the model looked or all of the above. Sometimes I think people can forget that for some 40K is a casual hobby. I will definitely start compiling little league ideas! I have a friend who has shown a little interest in wargaming who will be hanging out on the weekend, so maybe we can bumble through the rules together and work out a game!

First of hopefully many noobie 200pt Kill Team Reps up! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/424750.page#3818666

Please check it out and leave some feed back! Love to hear from you!

Ben