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Hi, I'm getting into WHFB and trying to put together a VC army. Looking through the book I like alot of the units in it and as a modeller I like to mess with diffferent models and kitbashing. Here's my question: I like the idea of werewolves and am thinking of making some as the new MI Crypt Horrors or Vargheist (spelling?)

First the C. Horror has their rules and regen plus they would benefit slightly better from IoN and crumble if the General dies (fluff wise leaving the enthrallment of the vampire). Very close to lore in my opinion and the C. Horror fluff goes in hand with that line about 'it shows how low the vampire has sunk to create such a thing' and that they can break the wards on graveyards so the vampires can get at the corpses within.

Next the Vargheist have slightly better stats and rules reflecting the hungry nature of the beast. They would also benefit from the Vampire's no crumble rule but don't benefit from IoN. Problem is they also have the fly rule...I just don't see the werewolves running quite that fast (maybe they do?). Fluff wise they fit the stories I've read about vampires turning into big nasties (The Vampire Wars) and Strigoi.

So I ask the general public, if you saw 3 or so werewolves in my army, would you have assume one MI over the other? Or maybe something else in that it should have been a Varghulf (spelling?)

Model/kit wise I have loads of options (ranging from bashing the kits proper with PP or reaper or etc). I was thinking of the base dual kit GW made with various wolf heads, some Horde models from the Circle of Orobos line, Dark elf clawed fiend, or some other independent maker of models. Looking around there are some nice ideas/kits laying about.

Thanks for reading and any input.



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And now it seems the net as had this asked before and the Rare Vafghulf seems to be what some use as a counts as werewolf.

I think the Varghulf really makes sense with its ruleset. Obviously can't have as many as if you took some of the MI selections, but that's the way I'd go.

Varghulf definitely fits better.

With the vampire rule, it's not bound to the general for movement, as a werewolf shouldn't be, and not treated as normal undead for things like crumble after the generals death, and not reinforced through IoN.

Since it lacks flight, it fits better than Vargheists, as werewolves don't fly. With it's various rules for melee, it definitely fits a werewolf.

Varghulf all the way! Becides I wish GW would have just made it a werewolf like the name implys. I belive they got it from old german for Var Ghulf or Were Wolf.

For a model, I'd advise a Vargheist, with the "spine" cut off, Crypt Horror arms, the Wolf head from Wolfwolf Wolfwolf Canis Wolfborn, and then Greenstuff fur.

You know what's fun? In Swedish, Varg means Wolf, and Ulv means Wolf.
Vargulv.. Varghulf.. See any similarities?

So I vote for the Wolfwolf as a counts-as Werewolf.

Well, I've seen a number of threads and some good conversions for making werewolves. No real things for whether people would allow them as MI BUT
Using rat ogres as the base
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/318604.page

Here's the Dark Eldar clawed one and a wolf head
http://www.vampirecounts.net/Thread-Varghulf-Conversion--14231?highlight=Clawed+Fiend

Use the Orge Kingdoms yhetee as the base
http://www.vampirecounts.net/Thread-Werewolves

Plain old 'here's a werewolf' model
http://boringmordheimforum.forumieren.com/t4710-inkwells-new-norse-werewolf-and-berserker?highlight=norse
there's also using Hordes Circle of Orobos and Reaper makes a zombie werewolf.

So before Monstrous Infantry people seemed to make werewolves as the varghulf which I admit has a nice balance in the rules and stats but a point cost plus only being able to field upwards of 4 in big games. So since alot of models I've seen are based on MI, which VCs now have two of, I may need to wait and see how they grow on me versus shoehorning in werewolves for the sake of having them.

Perhaps fluffwise beastman looking wolflike is more common but real werewolves are more rare and thus need to be seen as rarely.

I'd say Crypt Horrors.

Regeneration is definitely a werewolf thing and flying isn't. Statwise I could see either one as a good candidate, but if I saw werewolves on 40mm bases on the table I'd immediately think they're Crypt Horrors.

Crumbling can be justified by the werewolves being bound by the general and slinking off when he is destroyed.

I always thought it would be cool to do a all werewolf army using ghoul, horror and ghoulking rules. You could use some PP minis (that new big plastic wolf :p )..... Please someone do this before I have to!

I say use the Crypt Horror as your werewolf. Why? Because that's exactly what I'm doing. I'm even using CH models as my base for conversion work. I've got one werewolf assembled already (he's in the painting process). I'll try to get some pix up eventually, but the parts list I used is:
Crypt Horror (cut/file off all the bone spikes, protrusions, spiny bits, etc)
Old plastic wolf head (from the days when GW made a plastic wolf for Goblins to ride).
Green stuff fur!

It's actually a pretty simple conversion. My greenstuff-fu is weak, but I think I've done a good job on the model.

Just tossin it out there but why do people like puttin ww with vampires? Thats a hollywood design.

Myth has at best a ww dies and becomes a vampire. They have no correlation really as a unified effort. The lizardmens dinosaurs and slanns have more in common. lol

It's not hollywood it is Romantic Era Horror (frankenstien, drakula ect)

In what romantic era did werewolves run around with dracula, ruthven, nosferatu, or any vampire outside of hammer films dracula vs wolfman bollocks.

Draigo wrote:Just tossin it out there but why do people like puttin ww with vampires? Thats a hollywood design.

Myth has at best a ww dies and becomes a vampire. They have no correlation really as a unified effort. The lizardmens dinosaurs and slanns have more in common. lol

I've never heard the werewolf dies and becomes a vampire thing before. I'm curious where you heard that.

As for why adding werewolves to a vampire army is so common, all I can say is that they fit the theme of my army much better than ghouls or uber-ghouls would. I do it because I want a unit that will lay down a significant amount of damage in a fight (Crypt Horror) but I can't use the actual model as is because I hate ghouls and never use them. I think they are ugly models, I think they have always been ugly models (the previous metal versions were the best of a bad lot) and I don't like how they play on the tabletop. If my army doesn't have regular ghouls, why would it have super ghouls? Hey, you know what hits hard in combat and is horror-themed? Werewolves. No, werewolves and vampires don't hang out in the same bars and strip clubs in the actual mythology, but thanks to Universal and Hammer films when people think of classic horror monsters they think of vampires, werewolves, and Frankenstien's monster. Usually in that order.

And I find wereolves easier to convert up than a giant flesh golem (Frankenstein). Also, I freaking LOVE werewolves, whether or not it's in WHFB. So yeah, I choose werewolves over flesh golems. It's a "feeling" or "theme" or "taste" thing. Werewolves and vampires are both gothic horror, and the VC SCREAM "gothic horror". So there is as much in common between vampires and werewolves as there is between lizardmen and dinosaurs.

Draigo wrote:In what romantic era did werewolves run around with dracula, ruthven, nosferatu, or any vampire outside of hammer films dracula vs wolfman bollocks.

With? Never
But the same feel and the same era? Yes

squidhills wrote:

Draigo wrote:Just tossin it out there but why do people like puttin ww with vampires? Thats a hollywood design.

Myth has at best a ww dies and becomes a vampire. They have no correlation really as a unified effort. The lizardmens dinosaurs and slanns have more in common. lol

I've never heard the werewolf dies and becomes a vampire thing before. I'm curious where you heard that.

As for why adding werewolves to a vampire army is so common, all I can say is that they fit the theme of my army much better than ghouls or uber-ghouls would. I do it because I want a unit that will lay down a significant amount of damage in a fight (Crypt Horror) but I can't use the actual model as is because I hate ghouls and never use them. I think they are ugly models, I think they have always been ugly models (the previous metal versions were the best of a bad lot) and I don't like how they play on the tabletop. If my army doesn't have regular ghouls, why would it have super ghouls? Hey, you know what hits hard in combat and is horror-themed? Werewolves. No, werewolves and vampires don't hang out in the same bars and strip clubs in the actual mythology, but thanks to Universal and Hammer films when people think of classic horror monsters they think of vampires, werewolves, and Frankenstien's monster. Usually in that order.

And I find wereolves easier to convert up than a giant flesh golem (Frankenstein). Also, I freaking LOVE werewolves, whether or not it's in WHFB. So yeah, I choose werewolves over flesh golems. It's a "feeling" or "theme" or "taste" thing. Werewolves and vampires are both gothic horror, and the VC SCREAM "gothic horror". So there is as much in common between vampires and werewolves as there is between lizardmen and dinosaurs.

The ones most people are familiar are eastern european vampires and werewolves. That common location is why their myths have had similar points like silver, holy relics, etc. Originally many werewolf myths were that they were witches who bargained with the devil or lain with beasts. In vampire lore there is a common thing that if you died a sinner you would rise as a vampire. As far as romance Ruthven was the first romatic done vampire and the one most today would see. Dracual wasnt given the dark romance feel till the spanish make of Dracula in Hollywood which was made at night after the american version was done during the day. The mexcian studios also perpetuated alot of the vapire sex appeal. In europre they were risen corpses more akin to ghouls from the start and then gradually gained powers like shapeshifting to raise the fear factor among the uneducated populace.. you know like the telephone game. Dracual himself is a combination of the vampire myths and werewolf myths. That is described in his weaknesses and signs like his described hairy palms. I just dont get where werewolves became servants of vampires and all the vamp vs werewolf silliness. Dont let y random thought though mean I dislike your army idea I mean you like it run with it. I just went off on a tangent after seeing the newest underworld.

I would have seen the Strigoi Ghoul King as more of a werewolf,but I don't think werewolves are great wizards or generals. But that's just me,personally I don't see werewolves being Ogre sized.

squidhills wrote:I say use the Crypt Horror as your werewolf. Why? Because that's exactly what I'm doing. I'm even using CH models as my base for conversion work. I've got one werewolf assembled already (he's in the painting process). I'll try to get some pix up eventually, but the parts list I used is:
Crypt Horror (cut/file off all the bone spikes, protrusions, spiny bits, etc)
Old plastic wolf head (from the days when GW made a plastic wolf for Goblins to ride).
Green stuff fur!

It's actually a pretty simple conversion. My greenstuff-fu is weak, but I think I've done a good job on the model.

That's about what I'm thinking of doing. Got the bits together save the greenstuff but I started this thread because WHFB has vampires and werewolves in the lore not Hollywood lore. Rather, from what I've read in the Von Carstein trilogy that vampires can change to wolves and control/manipulate live ones. So instead of ghoul/C. Horror the big bad monster is the strigoi-feeding monster that's wolfed out. As others pointed out the Varghulf was GWs answer to the werewolf but made a winged manbat thing that has no fly rule. Now that there is a winged vargheist fly model I'm making some proper hungry looking models. As MI werewolves. My armies going to theme with wolves bats and having those units make my lists easier I think. Throw in a Mortis Engine and I'm having fun.

Reason why people mix wolves with vamps is because they're both creatures of the night (although powerful vampires can be in daylight)

Not to mention Warhammer Vampires are somewhat "half-werewolf" with the entire "turn into a giant beast of rage"

kenshin620 wrote:Reason why people mix wolves with vamps is because they're both creatures of the night (although powerful vampires can be in daylight)

Not to mention Warhammer Vampires are somewhat "half-werewolf" with the entire "turn into a giant beast of rage"

cept werewolves werent beasts of rage till hollywood..
Only dracula could walk in the day.. well till more hollywood crap..
Van Carstein are modeled after dracula.

Draigo wrote:
cept werewolves werent beasts of rage till hollywood..

Really? Werewolves were not creatures of rage until Hollywood got hold of them? Can you cite sources for that?

squidhills wrote:

Draigo wrote:
cept werewolves werent beasts of rage till hollywood..

Really? Werewolves were not creatures of rage until Hollywood got hold of them? Can you cite sources for that?

Now not to say werewolves werent viewed as evil because espeacially in Europe they were what the villagers would sometimes blame when a wolf attacked a person or an espeacially horrifc crime.

One of the orignal men to wolf stories is Lycaon. He was turned into a wolf for offeneding Zeus.

Many other of their origins included witch's spells, salves, sleeping outside on the full moon, divine punishment, etc

Most this has little to do with rage though an embittered cursed individual could become angry but idk any werewolves to ask outside of Cheaney.

Confontation models have a huge werewolf line.

They are also fairly large models compared to 28mm scale.

Side note- My favorite werewolf story is about one of Arthurs Knights of the Round Table.

He is turnned into a wolf by his wife (one of Morgan LeFeys crew). He then runs to Sherwood Forest (Which supposedly has an ancient blessing that "he who seeks shelter here shall become the saviour of his people" or some such... basically forshadowing the times of Robin Hood) where he fights the minions of his evil wife until he enters his castle through a hidden door. He then smashes the wax sculpture that keeps him in wolf form then uses the magic wax to turn his wife into an owl. Merlins owl.

I just had to bring this up.

Thanks! I'll be sure to grab one for a varghulf or depending on the size use it as a C. Horror champion

OMG... it... it's anitomically correct... Please don't let the Slaanesh players see this model...

You think that's bad you should check the rest of the rqange.
Personally i think it's an interesting option.

Yeah I actually thought of this thread when I saw it, but then immediately got distracted by getting skyped and forgot to post the link.

I'm bloody tempted to get one myself. Just one model in a long list of models I'm bloody tempted to buy from Maelstrom!

I was planning on running a pair of Varghulfs but was looking for a way to make the second look different.

I now know.