Proposed Malcador Variants

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**Kepora**

I'm going to keep this short and simple, as I just want technical/points/mechanics discussion.

Fluff-wise, my iron Warriors warband-the Iron Suns-have acquired a large number of Malcador tanks (of various types) via renegades and raiding lesser-used storage compounds. Once htey had an ample force of these tanks, they began overhauling them, giving them new/improved engines, new armor, and experimenting wiht new weaponry. The first proposed design has no title yet, but is essentially a Leman Russ Executioner on a Malcador chassis:

Malcador (Name suggestions?): 375 points

AV 14/13/11 (maybe 13/13/11)

BS 4

Structure points: 2

-Turret-mounted Executioner cannon*
-Hull-mounted Lascannon**
-Sponson-mounted Plasma Cannons
-Dozer Blade

*The Executioner cannon fires with the same profile as the Executioner cannon from Codex: Imperial Guard, but this Chaos version has an alternate firing mode with the following profile:

Executioner Cannon (Overcharged): Strength 8 (maybe 7 or 9), AP 2, 5" Blast (maybe 7").

However, this puts tremendous strain on the cannon and it's cooling systems; after firing, roll a D6. On a 1, the Malcador takes a Glancing hit (maybe penetrating, if you guys feel that would be more fair).

**Targeting Data: If a target was hit (even if not wounded or damaged) with the hull-mounted lascannon prior to firing, it may re-roll the scatter for the Overcharged shot.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
EDIT: After talking to the guys at my LGS, a flat cost of 300 (maybe 325) seemed like a mor efair price to them.

**Deadshot**

Malcador Executioner?

**Ratius**

Can I assume you want it to be Super Heavy?
If so insert a line "Super Heavey Vehicle", that will allow it to follow the Apoc rules.

What role do you see it as fulfilling?
If its an infantry/light vehicle hunter I think the str8 Ap2 5" works well. If you want it to fight other super heavies though the profile will probably have to change to something like str 9 ap1 or even crank it to str10 but that would require a points buff imo.

The overheat rule is fluffy and nice but I'd leave it as a glance hit.
Rolling a one and then a couple of 6s and watching your 300+ point tank go poof isnt fun.

AV values look fair to me as does the BS assuming its piloted/upgraded by Traitor legions.

Dont know about the 300 mark, a LR with a few vehicle upgrades comes close to that and this thing is more powerful imo, due to it being Super Heavy, having 2 SPs and more high str weapons.
A Baneblade is 400 iirc? Perhaps around 350 would work.

**TyraelVladinhurst**

Ratius wrote:Can I assume you want it to be Super Heavy?
If so insert a line "Super Heavey Vehicle", that will allow it to follow the Apoc rules.

What role do you see it as fulfilling?
If its an infantry/light vehicle hunter I think the str8 Ap2 5" works well. If you want it to fight other super heavies though the profile will probably have to change to something like str 9 ap1 or even crank it to str10 but that would require a points buff imo.

The overheat rule is fluffy and nice but I'd leave it as a glance hit.
Rolling a one and then a couple of 6s and watching your 300+ point tank go poof isnt fun.

AV values look fair to me as does the BS assuming its piloted/upgraded by Traitor legions.

Dont know about the 300 mark, a LR with a few vehicle upgrades comes close to that and this thing is more powerful imo, due to it being Super Heavy, having 2 SPs and more high str weapons.
A Baneblade is 400 iirc? Perhaps around 350 would work.

sorry, but baneblades are 500 without upgrades

**The Mad Tanker**

Looks good, but i don't think they would keep the name Malcador, the guy who gave his life to protecting the Imperium and insuring the Emperors could be placed on the Golden Throne. May something more chaos-y...

Horus Heavy Tank?
Addadon Heavy Tank ?
Perturabo Heavy Tank?

edit: 500th post

**Avatar 720**

I don't get the overcharged shot. I assume it'd have to be reworked autocannon shells, but what makes them so special? Where does the weapon strain come from? I'd like to have some sort of justification for it, for why it isn't used with other autocannons, and for why the Imperium aren't using them.

I honestly think just adding D3 shots would be better; best case scenario, you get 7 TL AC shots, worst case, you get 5 and you blow up your weapon in the process.

I also think that each overcharged shot should increase the risk of damage to stop people simply spamming them, so the first overcharged shot glances on a 1, and the 6th will autoglance, with a 7th blowing the weapon up. Unless you fire the overcharged shot in every available shooting phase, you should be fine.

To justify it, you could say that exposure to the warp strengthened the weapons to varying degrees, with some able to take the strain of mass overfire, but others not so much.

I also don't understand the Targeting Data rule; if Imperial tanks can't use it to better their aim, why can Chaos? It's not something that's easily explainable either. I don't see the need for it, even if you do keep the Blast.

Any particular reason for the Plasma Cannon sponsons? They don't exactly mesh with the main armament unless you plan on solely overcharging for the blast; perhaps replace them with Reaper Autocannons to make it more Chaos-y (might be slightly OP if you use my overcharged idea, with a maximum of 11 TL AC shots), or just plain heavy bolters, and allow people to purchase different combinations.

I'd also replace the hull lascannon with a plain heavy bolter and allow people to upgrade themselves.

Just remember that the only Chaos units with Multi-Meltas and Plasma Cannons are Chaos Dreadnaughts and Obliterators, so don't make them seem like they're widespread, perhaps make them 0-1 upgrades per army.

As for the name, Malcador is a bit too Loyalist, but if you want it in the name, then you could try:

Tainted Malcador ('Tainted' makes it less loyalist, and implies that they can tempt even the most heroic Imperials to Chaos):
Bereaver
Hellstorm
Warphammer
Lifesbane
Execrator

**Kepora**

Avatar 720 wrote:I don't get the overcharged shot. I assume it'd have to be reworked autocannon shells, but what makes them so special? Where does the weapon strain come from? I'd like to have some sort of justification for it, for why it isn't used with other autocannons, and for why the Imperium aren't using them.

I honestly think just adding D3 shots would be better; best case scenario, you get 7 TL AC shots, worst case, you get 5 and you blow up your weapon in the process.

I also think that each overcharged shot should increase the risk of damage to stop people simply spamming them, so the first overcharged shot glances on a 1, and the 6th will autoglance, with a 7th blowing the weapon up. Unless you fire the overcharged shot in every available shooting phase, you should be fine.

To justify it, you could say that exposure to the warp strengthened the weapons to varying degrees, with some able to take the strain of mass overfire, but others not so much.

I also don't understand the Targeting Data rule; if Imperial tanks can't use it to better their aim, why can Chaos? It's not something that's easily explainable either. I don't see the need for it, even if you do keep the Blast.

Any particular reason for the Plasma Cannon sponsons? They don't exactly mesh with the main armament unless you plan on solely overcharging for the blast; perhaps replace them with Reaper Autocannons to make it more Chaos-y (might be slightly OP if you use my overcharged idea, with a maximum of 11 TL AC shots), or just plain heavy bolters, and allow people to purchase different combinations.

I'd also replace the hull lascannon with a plain heavy bolter and allow people to upgrade themselves.

Just remember that the only Chaos units with Multi-Meltas and Plasma Cannons are Chaos Dreadnaughts and Obliterators, so don't make them seem like they're widespread, perhaps make them 0-1 upgrades per army.

As for the name, Malcador is a bit too Loyalist, but if you want it in the name, then you could try:

Tainted Malcador ('Tainted' makes it less loyalist, and implies that they can tempt even the most heroic Imperials to Chaos):
Bereaver
Hellstorm
Warphammer
Lifesbane
Execrator

...um...read again, fella? it's an EXECUTIONER cannon, the 3 small blast-firing Plasma cannon! XD It's an energy weapon-based tank.

**Ratius**

@Avatar the targetting data rule is basically the Coaxial rule from the Apoc ruleset iirc.

I would continue to stay away from catastrophic damage due to weapon misfires. There are very few rules in Apoc that incoprorate this and as I've said in other threads losing your 400+ tank due to an unlucky dice roll when all you are doing is carrying out a basic firing action is unfun and unfair.

**Avatar 720**

Kepora wrote:
Avatar 720 wrote:I don't get the overcharged shot. I assume it'd have to be reworked autocannon shells, but what makes them so special? Where does the weapon strain come from? I'd like to have some sort of justification for it, for why it isn't used with other autocannons, and for why the Imperium aren't using them.

I honestly think just adding D3 shots would be better; best case scenario, you get 7 TL AC shots, worst case, you get 5 and you blow up your weapon in the process.

I also think that each overcharged shot should increase the risk of damage to stop people simply spamming them, so the first overcharged shot glances on a 1, and the 6th will autoglance, with a 7th blowing the weapon up. Unless you fire the overcharged shot in every available shooting phase, you should be fine.

To justify it, you could say that exposure to the warp strengthened the weapons to varying degrees, with some able to take the strain of mass overfire, but others not so much.

I also don't understand the Targeting Data rule; if Imperial tanks can't use it to better their aim, why can Chaos? It's not something that's easily explainable either. I don't see the need for it, even if you do keep the Blast.

Any particular reason for the Plasma Cannon sponsons? They don't exactly mesh with the main armament unless you plan on solely overcharging for the blast; perhaps replace them with Reaper Autocannons to make it more Chaos-y (might be slightly OP if you use my overcharged idea, with a maximum of 11 TL AC shots), or just plain heavy bolters, and allow people to purchase different combinations.

I'd also replace the hull lascannon with a plain heavy bolter and allow people to upgrade themselves.

Just remember that the only Chaos units with Multi-Meltas and Plasma Cannons are Chaos Dreadnaughts and Obliterators, so don't make them seem like they're widespread, perhaps make them 0-1 upgrades per army.

As for the name, Malcador is a bit too Loyalist, but if you want it in the name, then you could try:

Tainted Malcador ('Tainted' makes it less loyalist, and implies that they can tempt even the most heroic Imperials to Chaos):
Bereaver
Hellstorm
Warphammer
Lifesbane
Execrator

...um...read again, fella? it's an EXECUTIONER cannon, the 3 small blast-firing Plasma cannon! XD It's an energy weapon-based tank.

Then make it an Exterminator variant and apply my post. Simples