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I play GK and find myself getting hammered by three squads of long fangs: usually 3 ML, 2 LC, & squad leader in each squad.

Because each squad splits fire, it is the equivalent of 6 heavy weapon teams targeting transports early, then the GK on foot. No matter how often people mention GK are too powerful, they still die as easily as a basic marine in power armor.

So, I am curious how other GK players deal with the SW opponent fielding 3 long fang squads (especially in a TAC list)?

If you know you will face them before army construction what do you include in the army composition?

Draigooooooowinnnggggg!

Intercepters are also good at getting to them and stomping them

Deepstriking anything can work, especially if you tie the units up with something big like a trygon and then pew pew at them with your own long ranged things.

Playing CSM, I'm pretty much always outgunned, so this isn't feasible though, unless I hit them with a battlecannon or something. I can never get enough shots out.

1: Draigo+Paladins in a vehicle, LRR or SR
just move towards them, full speed !

2: outflank 2 soladin with hammer

3: (if you are a fun of DK) outflank 1 DK with jump pack!

4: if you can't go first, hind everything behind the building

Let me preface this by saying I do not play GK. Nevertheless, here goes. I deepstrike in near them (preferably behind cover) jump over and assault. If you can do something similar, I assure you that the Long Fangs are grumpy old curmudgeons who do not like being assaulted in the early game before they can bring their firepower to bear.

I guess you could solve it same way I do with my orks, as everyone has also said, outflanking.

In my case, it's snikrot with one kommando group from the rear, and 2 regular kommando squads from the sides. Add in outflanking deffkoptas and peple tend to get stressed...

Though, allways keep in mind that mass reserving and outflanking has its risks... Things will be late..

//Calle

Outflanking, deep striking and scouting can do the trick. These tactical options will put pressure upon the LFs so that they are eventually only one turn away from being assaulted.

Don't forget to use terrain. There should be some LOS-blocking terrain on the table, which should create some "shadows" in which you can block off the fire of at least one unit of long fangs. If your opponent spreads out his LFs to cover more angles of approach, you should still be able to hide from the shots of at least one unit. If he bunches them up, that should actually make it easier, as multiple units can be blocked by a single large piece of terrain. If the SW player is going first, it should be easier for you to position for this.

Remember to use the SW (and your own wrecked) vehicles for this too, against any LF squads deployed at ground level. Any Immobilized or Wrecked vehicles on the field become more cover/LOS-blockers.

With my Necrons, I just send the Deathmarks after 'em. Works every time.

Now, I don't use GK myself, but this sounds like you may have actually found a use for Karamazov's Orbital Bombardment.

Thanks for all the information, dakkanaughts.

GK has plenty of units to utilize DS and/or scout with outflank.

I was thinking of a using a single unit to DS, but electing to combat squad them so that I can shoot at two LF units at once before assaulting the next turn. Terminators are a little more expensive than interceptors but have an inv save if I roll a "one" landing in cover. Do you like the idea of placing only five GK models near each unit of 6 LF?

DS a DK or two?

What about the Callidus Assassin? Anyone in favor of using this model as an answer to the LF?

Someone suggested the orbital bombardment. Is this viable? The 2d6 auto scatter makes this pretty useless, right? I can understand fluff wise why this is the rule, but GW essentially made the orbital bombardment nearly completely useless even if it wasn't also over priced.

The big advantage that terminators have in deepstriking against longfangs is the 2+ save, which they still get against krak missiles. A unit of interceptors deepstriking or shunting anywhere near a unit of longfangs is going to get lit up and lose models.

If you happen to have a dreadnight model, it can also shunt up and take his 2+ save against the missiles.

I think outflanking is better. GK doesn't have a drop pod, and you can't put a skull in enemy's deploy zone. With 2d6 scatter, it's too difficult for the termies to finish their job.

Go outflank some soladin!

Flavius Infernus wrote:If you happen to have a dreadnight model, it can also shunt up and take his 2+ save against the missiles.

Yep, the 2+ save laughs at the missiles , and 4 wounds

2 dreadknights shunting 30' then charging. Raaah you're good.

BronzeJon wrote:2 dreadknights shunting 30' then charging. Raaah you're good.

You can't charge after shunting.
and 2 more DK means 2 less psyflemen..

1 DK in enough I think.
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Another problem is , OP's friend runs "3ML+2LC" long fangs. 6 LC can nearly kill a DK, and 9 ML can still destroy some GK vehicles.

I think outflank will be better.

Termie armour/land raiders/dreads with psybolt ammo.

Certainly 5 riflemen dreads in a list can take it and dish it back out ...

ruminator wrote:Termie armour/land raiders/dreads with psybolt ammo.

Certainly 5 riflemen dreads in a list can take it and dish it back out ...

Only 5?

cmac wrote:

ruminator wrote:Termie armour/land raiders/dreads with psybolt ammo.

Certainly 5 riflemen dreads in a list can take it and dish it back out ...

Only 5?

You've got to have an HQ and troops unfortunately ...

Consider a Vindicare. His ability to target the Squad Leader will effectively half their effectiveness after a couple of turns as they can no longer split fire.

Zid wrote:Intercepters are also good at getting to them and stomping them

They are? How do you figure that? An all missile squad of long fangs is like 140 points or something. And they are in cover. If you pop up with 140 points of interceptors (5 guys) you will barely do anything to them, then you'll get shot to pieces.

So you could bring more points worth of interceptors, but they will struggle to take the long fangs down as quickly as the long fangs can take them down.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Valkyrie wrote:Consider a Vindicare. His ability to target the Squad Leader will effectively half their effectiveness after a couple of turns as they can no longer split fire.

The only problem with that is that one missile instakills the assassin. So unless your list already has a techmarine in it for another good reason (making bolstering a ruin "free"), you're spending too many points on a guy who can shoot one shot a turn for the cost of a whole long fangs squad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BronzeJon wrote:2 dreadknights shunting 30' then charging. Raaah you're good.

This could be good against long fangs missile spammers. Maybe.

But his opponent has lascannons which make dreadknights cry, and I bet there are some lascannon or even worse las-plas razorbacks in most space wolf lists as well. Also, dreadknights with a teleporter and one weapon are over 230 points each, the long fangs squads are 150-180 points AND everything else in SW players backfield will get to shoot at the dreadknights.

So if the goal is to sacrifice the dreadknights, I guess that is a plan. But gosh it is an expensive one where you probably won't come out ahead.

one outflancing dk does the trick. It affects the long fang deployment alot so they don't get so good fire lanes. One less psyffledread is not that big issue. I play 3 ba devs and they don't like the dk that has 75% chance of showing up T2. It also affects my other units as I have to take it down fast. With teleport for it I cannot run a way from it. Don't bother with ranged flamer for it.

Hey Dakkanauts,

Thanks for the great replies.

I played this game yesterday and won! We played annihilation. It was extremely close, but those damn SW are back in the Emperor's kennels.

As to the three LF squad problem:

I brought a Callidus Assassin and a 10 man terminator squad w/ 2 psycannons (w/ daemonhammers) and 8 halberds (no psybolt ammo).

He brought only 2 LF squads and placed them both in area terrain within a couple of inches of the back of his deployment zone. He got first turn!

Both the assassin and the terminators arrived turn 2 (gratefully). I split the termies into two 5 man combat squads and placed them each about 8 inches from the LF squads. Both scatter dice rolled "hits" - praise the Emperor.

I shot all 10 models at one LF squad killing 3 ML and 1 LC. (The Callidus went elsewhere to destroy a grey hunters squad caught in the open.)

On his turn he returned fire with both LF squads as well as two 6-man grey hunters squads (5 men plus a wolf guard in each) utilizing a plasma gun and combi-plasma gun in each squad. At the conclusion of these four squads shooting at my terminators I had one terminator left in one squad and three left in the second squad.

These four remaining terminators assaulted his remaining 8 LF models, killing four more in combat while losing two terminators. Eventually these two terminators finished the LF and the two 6-man grey hunters squads off in combat -- winning me the game! My rolls were below average in the initial two rounds of cc, but the last terminator got really angry for the final three rounds and cleaned house!!!

All-in-all, I definitely like the DS terminators as a counter to LF. In the future I think I will make certain to include psybolt ammo and give them all hammers instead of halberds.

I spent 450 points to eliminate 330 points of LF.

His LF squads killed the 10 terminators (w/ help), the Vindicare, 2 rhinos, and immobilized 2 rhinos in three rounds of shooting.

My 10 terminators killed the 2 LF squads and 2 six-man grey hunter squads.

I am satisfied!

Thanks Dakkanauts.